Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I admitted that my comment was not scientific. Your observation is also valid. But just because your observation is different from others in this thread doesn't mean that their observations are false. Calling them delusional hypocrites, just for reporting what they observed, is a bit much.
Noting hypocrisy isn't based on my observations, but the facts I presented. What I observe typically is likes with likes in most areas, rather than an imbalance (fitness, level of education, SES, etc). The hypocrisy is also how men view themselves; based on the study I linked above.
Quote:
Also, since you want to point out that there are more overweight men than women in society, then it would seem, just averaging out the numbers, that we ought to see more fat men with fit women than the other way around. But since nobody is seeing that (not even you, according to your first sentence), this point actually supports those who want to argue that the women are more fixated on image and such.
I don't think the anecdotes provide for an argument simply due to reality, but it's possible that there might be differences among married couples. Specifically those with children. But, I'll go look that up as well...
This is what I found-
Quote:
Gordon-Larsen and her colleagues followed almost 8,000 people, ages 12 to 28, over five years and a subsample of 1,200 couples. Among their findings:
•Women in their teens and early 20s who continued to date but didn't cohabitate gained an average of 15 pounds over five years; their male counterparts added about 24 pounds.
•Newly married women in that age group packed on 24 pounds in five years; newly married men gained 30 pounds.
That degree of gain wasn't seen in couples who were living together but not married. Women gained 3 pounds more than their single peers — 18 pounds — and men gained 24 pounds.
This study shows a difference in perception regarding weight between the genders, where men have more pressure from their mates.
Cornell studies examine how weight relates to dating and marriage.
That's not to say that couples who are comprised of fit men and overweight women do not exist, just that it's not the trend. This coupled with the fact that men have less risk for gaining weight compared to women is striking. Further, women are indeed far more body conscious than guys. It's one of the reasons why there are more overweight men. I also read that overweight men tend to earn more and skinny women tend to earn more. It's definitely more-so in a woman's best interest to lose weight.
Quote:
From an older thread, here are some other interesting (and non-scientific) observations on this topic, in case anyone wants to read them. I've never heard that things were this bad, say, 50 years ago (were they?), so this is another reason to surmise that women have moved more than men toward the above-mentioned bipolar extremes in recent decades.
As far as the nice guy argument goes, I don't really buy into it. Just as overweight men tend to view themselves with a positive body image, not so nice-guys, or problematic guys, might have a skewed view about themselves. Many of the self proclaimed nice guys aren't nice at all.
Seriously - I don't know how people can say that they don't see overweight men with fit women. Many of the fit women I know are with overweight men or men that aren't as fit as them. And not that I like to use TV as an example for anything- but tons of sitcoms have obese men married to skinny women. This is mostly what I see in real life as well. Perhaps it is a regional thing - I live in New York and most of the women that I know are all pretty fit.
Seriously - I don't know how people can say that they don't see overweight men with fit women. Many of the fit women I know are with overweight men or men that aren't as fit as them. And not that I like to use TV as an example for anything- but tons of sitcoms have obese men married to skinny women. This is mostly what I see in real life as well. Perhaps it is a regional thing - I live in New York and most of the women that I know are all pretty fit.
Well that explains a lot. See I live in southern California where there are more men than women down here. It seems that every woman down here has 3 to 4 guys competing for her attention even if she's taken. And when I say every women I mean every woman.
That's not to say that couples who are comprised of fit men and overweight women do not exist, just that it's not the trend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93
Seriously - I don't know how people can say that they don't see overweight men with fit women. Many of the fit women I know are with overweight men or men that aren't as fit as them.... Perhaps it is a regional thing - I live in New York and most of the women that I know are all pretty fit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ro2113
Well that explains a lot. See I live in southern California where there are more men than women down here. It seems that every woman down here has 3 to 4 guys competing for her attention even if she's taken. And when I say every women I mean every woman.
OK. For the most part, I guess people will believe what they see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braunwyn
As far as the nice guy argument goes, I don't really buy into it. Just as overweight men tend to view themselves with a positive body image, not so nice-guys, or problematic guys, might have a skewed view about themselves. Many of the self proclaimed nice guys aren't nice at all.
My point was to consider whether things have changed over time. I don't know whether men's tastes in women have changed much over the past, say, 50 years. But the phenomenon I cited about the church groups (having a lot of women with years of bad boy baggage now seeking something serious) seems to be a shift that has occurred. This is based on my never having heard of this a few decades ago -- again, admittedly not scientific, so if anyone has any experience, observations, or hard data to the contrary, please speak up.
Until then, I think my hypothesis (that the Provider/Stud complex has gotten more severe in recent decades) is still worthy of consideration.
OK. For the most part, I guess people will believe what they see.
My point was to consider whether things have changed over time. I don't know whether men's tastes in women have changed much over the past, say, 50 years. But the phenomenon I cited about the church groups (having a lot of women with years of bad boy baggage now seeking something serious) seems to be a shift that has occurred. This is based on my never having heard of this a few decades ago -- again, admittedly not scientific, so if anyone has any experience, observations, or hard data to the contrary, please speak up.
Until then, I think my hypothesis (that the Provider/Stud complex has gotten more severe in recent decades) is still worthy of consideration.
Some things have been changing, while others not so much. Women have apparently reached a weight gain plateau. Men aren't done yet (just to throw that in there for good measure lol). I don't have much to say about church groups since I'm not religious, but I never realized the bad boy thing was a church related issue. That's pretty interesting. I guess there would be a segment of folk who turn to church following rough patches in their lives, so that makes sense.
Some things have been changing, while others not so much. Women have apparently reached a weight gain plateau. Men aren't done yet (just to throw that in there for good measure lol). I don't have much to say about church groups since I'm not religious, but I never realized the bad boy thing was a church related issue. That's pretty interesting. I guess there would be a segment of folk who turn to church following rough patches in their lives, so that makes sense.
I didn't mean in church groups specifically, but in the general society. I used the church example because it was an observation of others that I was able to find and cite quickly. I don't go to church, but I've made a similar observation in life outside of church (many women with years of bad boy baggage). That's just my experience, and I'm interested to know what others are experiencing (especially if they're able to compare from decades ago, say 50 years ago).
Here is an article about the rise of the bad boy fixation.
I can't vouch for this article as being the be-all-end-all on this topic. It's just an example, there are a lot of articles, and C-D threads, about this. You can also google "soft polygamy" for articles about how a lot of single women are increasingly concentrated around guys who are the player type.
So, until we ascertain otherwise, I continue to offer my hypothesis (the rise of the Provider/Stud complex) as at least one factor contributing to the problem posed in this thread -- Why does it seem that a lot of women complain they can't find a decent man? The decent men who don't fit the extremes of the Provider/Stud model are increasingly dropping off of women's radar. And then they don't return calls from decent men like Cdubs (our hero earlier in this thread).
Which reminds me, have any women taken me up on my suggestion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans63
And to the women who are being picky and piling on, I would suggest that it would be more constructive for you to educate each other, and your daughters, your nieces, etc., in recognizing what a decent man looks like.
Hint: it's guys like Cdubs, who leave messages like the one he left.
I've always been attracted to nice, decent guys. Maybe it's because my father was such a big part of my life and he was a great person, maybe it's just that I like to be treated well - who knows? Some of my girlfriends have gone through a bad boy phase but most of them have ended up with really great people. Likewise, a lot of my male friends went through their bad taste phase when it comes to women. Most of them ended up with great women also. I don't think going through a bad boy/girl phase is such a big deal - as long as you choose your spouse wisely. And dating people that aren't the best for you doesn't always lead to baggage - sometimes it leads to finding what type of person you really want to share your life with. Everyone makes mistakes - whether or not we learn from them is up to us.
My point about Cdubs was that, although he left a perfectly reasonable voice message for the girl, several women on this thread came up with the most negative possible interpretations of his message. If you err on the side of interpreting people negatively, you'll certainly make it harder for yourself to find a decent man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93
I don't think going through a bad boy/girl phase is such a big deal - as long as you choose your spouse wisely. And dating people that aren't the best for you doesn't always lead to baggage - sometimes it leads to finding what type of person you really want to share your life with. Everyone makes mistakes - whether or not we learn from them is up to us.
Yes, baggage is not necessarily baggage. As long as the guys weren't beating you (more than you wanted them to), or impregnating and then abandoning you, or causing other serious trouble, I suppose it's not a big deal. I would guess that women choose their lifestyles while single with their eyes open. Having a variety of partners during that time has the benefits of (a) being fun, (b) giving you experience with the opposite sex, and (c) getting certain physical needs met. Same as for a man.
But as the Provider/Stud complex, as I call it, becomes increasingly severe and entrenched, to the point of extreme (which is what I suggest is happening), there are downsides for both men and women. In a world of increasing "soft polygamy" and "hypergamy", with women increasingly fixated on certain "alpha" qualities, there's a widening gap between sexual "haves" and "have nots" among single men. So you have an increasingly small percentage of single men who have increasingly larger numbers of partners (with multiple concurrent partners, and many women cycling in and out of their lives), while an increasingly large percentage of single men (possibly a majority by now) being typically alone, rarely or never having a partner during their single years. The disadvantages for the latter group of men are obvious. They wind up lacking experience with women, perhaps marrying anyone who comes along who will accept them. They also experience years of frustration not getting certain needs met.
The disadvantage for women is that by the time they're ready to settle down, the only men they can find are guys who are entrenched in the player lifestyle, and guys who not only lack relationship experience but are also somewhat messed up psychologically due to not getting certain physical intimacy needs met for a long time.
Result: Men are frustrated, and women complain that they can't find a decent man.
"O brave new world that hath such creatures in it...."
He's funny, he's nice, what is there not to like about him. Some of the other males on this forum could learn a thing or two from him.
Last edited by Djuna; 08-06-2011 at 07:53 PM..
Reason: typing whilst intoxicated leads to errors
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
O brave new world...
