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I appreciate the advice, and it certainly seems sound to me, too. But I think I've gotten to the point where I don't even care enough to try. And I don't mean that in a depressed way. I mean, 99% of the time I'm perfectly fine being alone, at least romantically. It only becomes bothersome at those times when it feels like I'm the only one who's alone. But of course that's just a mental trick, because I know very well there are plenty of other people just as dateless as me (even if it's not common). And most of the time I'm fully aware of that and being alone doesn't bother me. Heck, I enjoy my alone time more often than not.
Yeah, but if a relationship suddenly were to catch you by surprise, you'd get used to it really fast, and you'd love it. Assuming neither of you had major baggage and were good people.
You've become jaded, and too soon IMHO. I know to many the dating and mating rituals are "just a game they don't want to play". Sadly, it is designed to separate alpha from beta males, and the varying degrees in between. But don't turn it into a situation where the woman has to have more balls than you to show any potential for romantic interest by approaching you first. Bad call, unless you are a rock star, actor, or other chick magnet. Getting rejected by women is part of becoming, and being, a man, it's our modern male right of passage, at least when it comes to finding a mate. Keep practicing, even with women you aren't interested in. It's about developing and polishing your ability to express and maintain an interest in a woman, doesn't matter if you plan on taking it to the next stage. What you are doing now is expecting attraction to happen naturally with you have cold and untested skills, which is unattractive to most women, I think, because women generally are attracted to a dominant (strong) male and a little rejection is something he should be able to handle.
By the way, when I was hitting the clubs big time a few years ago, me and my buds had a rule of approaching at least 3 totally unattractive women (big girls too) before we approached a hottie so that your chops and bullsh_t factors were well lubricated for the good ones. Funny thing is, sometimes the hot chick down the way tends to notice and finds that "I'm just here to meet people" attitude attractive. Yups, that's how its done.
I'd rather rub one out to porn then stumble over myself trying to get some girl's attention. Been there, done that it's not happening again. As for the whole passing on your genes thing, the poor and uneducated are having more kids than anyone else. Just look at all the baby mama and baby daddy threads on here. I'm pretty sure all those dudes aren't thinking about passing on their genes when they are putting it in. Most of those dudes don't even want to pass on their genetics.
I'd rather rub one out to porn then stumble over myself trying to get some girl's attention. Been there, done that it's not happening again. As for the whole passing on your genes thing, the poor and uneducated are having more kids than anyone else. Just look at all the baby mama and baby daddy threads on here. I'm pretty sure all those dudes aren't thinking about passing on their genes when they are putting it in. Most of those dudes don't even want to pass on their genetics.
Nobody said anything about passing on genes. Dating and mating doesn't necessarily involve gene-combining. It's about reliable and satisfying companionship. Don't be dragging genes into it.
I get what you are saying and appreciate the perspective, and I do agree with you about needing to break the ice sometimes to gett the conversation started. Once the initial anxiety passes and the comfort and rapport develops, however, Im not so sure women should take the next step to carry the relationship to the next stage by handing over the number without beung asked. You have to give him the opportunity to ask for it otherwise, I think, it steers the relationship in another direction.
There are ways to encouage him to ask indirectly such as, "So what next? Do you want to call me sometime or just email, facebook, or twitter for now? Not sure cuz I also want to take it slow you know",haha. Stuff like that instead of here's my number call me when you can. Its a small but important difference IMHO that lets him walk away thinking of you with him in a LTR instead of wondering why you gave him your number when he didn't or wasn't ready to ask for it. And frankly women are far more clever and cute at coming up with these indirect approaches than I, the guy just has to take the bait. If he doesnt, something else is going on.
Wow what a gamester. Such elaborate psychology!
How about this -- I never give my number when asked (I'm female). Or if I give it, it is for a simple mundane reason, not ever because I am interested. I will give my email address instead when they ask. If the guy can write a decent sentence he has a chance to have an actual phone conversation with me, at some point or something. I am just a busy person, no time to sit around on the phone going "so....what are you doing".
Really, nutz, I can't get over your twisty and turny mindset re: women. They say that women complicate and overthink everything, but here's you!
Basically, I am pretty simple. If you have something to say, I will talk to you. If not, don't waste my time.
Nobody said anything about passing on genes. Dating and mating doesn't necessarily involve gene-combining. It's about reliable and satisfying companionship. Don't be dragging genes into it.
I'm just answering to the poster I quoted. He brought up the whole survival of the fittest, passing on your genes stuff.
Yeah, but if a relationship suddenly were to catch you by surprise, you'd get used to it really fast, and you'd love it. Assuming neither of you had major baggage and were good people.
Oh I'm completely open to the idea of stumbling into a relationship by chance. In fact, I think that's the only way I'd want it.
BTW, I like your "shotgun approach" analogy. How does one go into a mall, or even a bar, and know they want to hit on a chick unless they're scorebuilding?
Do it whenever, if a guy isn't interested he'll say no. It is no different than a guy initiating conversation with a girl... if she isn't interested she'll say no..
Not too much more to discuss here..
Not always...some people are just too weak to say 'no' when that is really what they mean. (I oughtta know - I've been there myself, in need of some assertiveness training) Sometimes, people do nice stuff for you for no reason if they're interested, and you accept such favors out of guilt, even if you're not interested in them.
But sure, if someone is strong and well-adjusted, then they say 'no' when they mean it.
It's not crazy. Male brains are wired to be goal-oriented. See the hill, take the hill. I'll add that they have greater appreciation for the hill that is hard-won.
Sounds sexist on my part to say that, but there it is.
To get an idea of this on a very basic level, look at the psychology of gaming. When The Sims first came out, it was definitely a "female" game even though the developers did not intend for it to be. They realized there would be a certain segment of females (and I use that term because it incorporates teens and adult women) who would get a bang out of playing "pixel Barbies," and they were right. But they also expected more males to be into it.
Turns out that for males, not having a way to "win" equates to "what's the point?" You can't "beat" the Sims, and because the Sims in Sims 1 didn't die (naturally--you could kill them, or set them up to be killed), there was no way to determine success or failure. Sure they had moods that went up or down depending on their immediate circumstances (hunger, hygiene, etc.), but it didn't matter to them if they were in a job they "wanted," whether they climbed the ladder on their career path, whether they got married and had families, and so on.
So with Sims 2 and Sims 3 they changed the game play to involve more goals. The Sims also now have lifetime goals, things they need to do or else they'll die (naturally) with "regrets." Dying happy is a form of winning. That drew a lot more males to the series.
Well, regardless of if that is true (no doubt there are differences between male and female brains, just a matter of to what they are, to what degree and how generalized can they be), do most people really believe life is a game, and that there's a way to "beat the game"?
All human beings have goals. The goals may be incredibly short term (for example, wants to go to the supermarket to buy these ingredients for this dish you're cooking tonight or want to buy those new shoes), or long term (want to get a promotion, want to write a novel, or want grandchildren) and you might not even word or think about it that way but they're still goals. It's impossible not to have goals in life. The goals may be something complicated or simple like "I just want to enjoy life" etc. If you have preferences for your life, or your year, or your day to turn out one way or another and to accomplish something, you have goals.
Now the question, of whether life is a game where you can "win" is really just a philosophical one and probably, some say all in the mind. If you believe you'll only die happy once you've done X, Y, Z, by all means, do so. But games like "do X, Y, Z and you win!" only exist because people make them exist, and if no one chooses to play them, they don't exist (without getting into any theological or religious discussion over for instance, whether you believe God, a higher being, fate, etc. created you to serve some purpose and had planned your life in some way).
Last edited by Stumbler.; 05-05-2012 at 08:19 PM..
This is a great thread. It's been on my mind the last couple of days because of a recent problem with a woman who was aggressively pursuing me. And I was amazed at how much it turned me off and it's made me think a lot about the pursuer/persuee (sp?) issue. As the man, I like to do the pursuing, and yes, I think we're wired that way. If she pursues me constantly, it reeks of desperation, and I don't dig desperation. And I think it's true for a lot of guys when I say that if a guy likes a girl enough, 9 times out of 10, he will overcome his shyness and show some way he's interested. He might trip over his words, or seem a bit awkward, but trust me, ladies, he'll find a way to get it out. Trust me, it's true, because a beautiful woman with a fantastic personality is worth it.
Personally, all I need from a woman is a sign that she's interested. Not a full on pursuit, just a subtle signal. A friendly text here and there, leaving the door open to meeting again, exchanging contact information--something like that. It's a delicate dance, to be sure for both sides, but it can be done.
Personally, I kind of prefer that the guy do the asking. I feel Bignutz is wrong in assuming that if a woman gives out her number, that she is looking for sex. I find that more than a bit offensive. I think most would just be doing it because they are interested in getting to know the guy, not be cause they are looking to hop in bed.
Just as we all know, men and women arent wired the same. MEN may have sex on the brain and think ' Oh, she gave me her number without me asking..she wants me to bang her'. But the woman is probably thinking ' I wonder if he is boyfriend material, and will he like my cat?'.
Thats just the difference between men and women. However, I understand what bignutz is saying when he states that REGARDLESS of a woman's intentions, she will STILL be preceived as loose. If that's how a good deal of men feel, it's good to know that. I suppose I could ask some male friends about that.
Again, I also prefer the man do the asking. It's just the way we are wired. Men like to do the pursuing. I DO believe that is at the core of a lot of men, even in the year 2012. To me, as long as a woman does not have a 'b-i-tch' attitude, and is being friendly and open and receptive to the guy..if he is interested, he WILL let her know. So if as a woman you are being all friendly and smiling and batting your eyes and what not, and he is still not asking for your number, etc. He's just not interested.
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