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It's gonna be hard for me to address your points with that formatting, so I'll just bullet them
You say there are two types of women labeled as crazy: The mentally ill and the provoked. I maintain that there is a SIGNIFICANT third category, the kind that are not mentally ill, and don't need to be provoked to act crazy. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree there.
I didn't imply that calling someone crazy makes them act that way. The article suggested that doing so was mentally abusive, and while I wouldn't go THAT far with the description, I generally agree if it's being done to manipulate behavior.
There's a difference between ACTING cold hearted and BEING cold hearted (relatively speaking). If I'm less driven by emotion than you, I'm technically more cold hearted. If that's how I am, it's no more passive-aggressive than crazy is directly aggressive.
Not returning texts is passive aggressive? Now THAT's crazy. Note that in the example I used, someone could easily be away from their phone for two hours. An accusation of behaving manipulative in any form (passive aggressive or otherwise) in that scenario is simply offensive.
I agree with you that behaving in such a way to avoid setting someone off in such a way is courteous, but there's a fine line between "courteous" and "walking on eggshells".
I wouldn't consider my post in any way "(determining) the amount of emotions a person has when they get upset". But we live in a world where we are expected to keep our behavior under a certain level control, according to our governmental laws. Just as a child is often provoked by their sibling to violence, a crazy person can similarly be provoked. And what do we tell a child who behaves this way? Is it wrong to FEEL like hurting someone? No. Is it wrong to do (or attempt to do) so? Yes. I have my own opinions regarding appropriate reactions when women resort to violence, but that's a different discussion.
A quick summary of my view, is that if someone feels they're being abused (via PA or any other form), they simply need to address the situation or leave it. Whether you intend it or not, it sounds as if people who act in a crazy fashion should be coddled (whether through preventitive courteous behavior, or any other means). And while that may in the nature of some men, I find it quite biased to EXPECT it from all men. Consider the child example. If they threw a tantrum because they were upset, you could alleviate it by giving them what they want. But this isn't always appropriate. Sometimes it certainly is, but to suggest that that sort of behavior is always because they are provoked in some fashion is simply naive.
I agree with a lot of what you say. Where I think I am not getting it, is where you say there is this third group of women who act crazy, who aren't provoked, or suffer mental illness. I would say that if a woman isn't provoked, and she acts crazy, then she has some sort of mental disorder, it may not be bipolar, or manic depressant, but it's something. Unless you are speaking of women who are very young, like teenagers, where that crazy behavior would be attributed to being immature. Because I have met a lot of women, and had a lot of relationships, and I never had one act crazy on me, once I stopped being PA, except a couple girls who later told me they had depression. I can't recall seeing anyone, even the ones that weren't provoked or mentally ill, who acted crazy. I saw them act like that at 21-22, but by 25 it was no longer present.
Perhaps the women some of you guys were referring to are just acting immature, well don't worry, by the time they are 25, they are out of that phase, but hopefully sooner. I don't know if there is a proper term, they may now have some acronym for it. Like ADHD was called being lazy when I was in school.
This is a typical thought, and I get it, since I at one time didn't understand. And really I don't think you can if you aren't actually PA yourself. Who are you to determine the right amount of emotions a person has when they get upset? You really can't. PA behavior, will mask itself by reasoning like above. I thought I was totally non abusive, I have never hit a woman and never even blocked their slaps, to protect. That's was the reasoning, and it's typical thoughts, and why many men are PA.
By allowing yourself to be HIT by someone who can't control their emotions, you're allowing yourself to be abused. Provoked or not, that's assault. If some woman, directly or not, angers me to the point where I slap/hit her? I'm going to jail. If someone finds themselves in a situation where they feel the only recourse is to strike someone, they need to leave/end the scenario. The above suggests that they were justified in hitting you because you were mentally abusing them and didn't realize it. That is no excuse to be hit.
Yes you are 100% correct, that happened so long ago, but you see, I allowed it, because in my mind, allowing her to do that, without blocking her, was part of the whole PA, and you are right, when it comes to it, I wouldn't tolerate a woman who was abusive. I probably wouldn't be with someone with even mild case of depression, just from what I went through. I learned my lesson, and you are correct in addressing the fact, that no one has the right to hit anyone, no matter how much they want to. You are right that you would go to jail if you put a mark on her. The person in question was combative, and she had a lot of issues, all because of a trusted male friend of the family, would rape her every wednesday afternoon, for 6 years. Then when she told her mom, she didn't believe her. Only after her sister, told the mother it happened to her, mom woke up and did something. So for almost 6 years I tried to help her, and teach her that not all men were bad, that some will not hurt her, no matter how badly she thought she deserved it. That experience molded me at a pretty young age.....
I agree with a lot of what you say. Where I think I am not getting it, is where you say there is this third group of women who act crazy, who aren't provoked, or suffer mental illness. I would say that if a woman isn't provoked, and she acts crazy, then she has some sort of mental disorder, it may not be bipolar, or manic depressant, but it's something. Unless you are speaking of women who are very young, like teenagers, where that crazy behavior would be attributed to being immature. Because I have met a lot of women, and had a lot of relationships, and I never had one act crazy on me, once I stopped being PA, except a couple girls who later told me they had depression. I can't recall seeing anyone, even the ones that weren't provoked or mentally ill, who acted crazy. I saw them act like that at 21-22, but by 25 it was no longer present.
Perhaps the women some of you guys were referring to are just acting immature, well don't worry, by the time they are 25, they are out of that phase, but hopefully sooner. I don't know if there is a proper term, they may now have some acronym for it. Like ADHD was called being lazy when I was in school.
I think so. I think you've taken it too serious, been too literal with the word crazy.
I think a lot of guys use the word to describe a jealous gf, or when talking about a woman who is selfish and demanding.
When a guy is being needy and calls a girl too many times and she calls him a 'psycho', is he really a psychotic person? Was he being provoked into being a psycho?..No she misused the word psycho the way men do with the word crazy.
And so-called crazy and psychotic behavior doesn't always end at 25.
My suspicion is that men who use gaslighting on women, are generally incredibly immature men, extremely narcissistic and uniquely paranoid, who have little or no respect for others, and feel entitled to do as they wish. These are men who live with their own demons, but their narcissism requires them to blame others for these demons.
Gaslighting is used as a manipulation. The men who use gaslighting are afraid to lose the relationship with the woman in question because she provides for him security, makes him feel worthwhile, is a source of prestige within the community, or whatever she provides for him. He knows he would be very uncomfortable without her presence. However, he is such an immature individual, that despite his clear need for a relationship with this woman, he still refuses to conform to the required conventions of behavior and threatens the bond with the woman, therefore risking the relationship terminating.
In order to avoid the relationship ending, he uses gaslighting. Using this, he attempts to exculpate himself of wrongdoing by telling the woman that he's not behaving irrationally or done anything wrong, but, rather, that she has imagined it all and is crazy.
Let me guess, you have had women just go crazy, and act irrationally towards you. You've gotten them texting you novels without a reply from you....or dozens of unanswered calls, and messages...it may be so bad, you start to show your friends..how about the girl who will jump through your window as you pull away in your car, that's a good one....because if you haven't then you don't really know whats up, it's just what your friends tell you, and you know your friends all tell you every detail of their relationships?
Women have these unrealistic expectations of the guy they are with. If that guy doesn't meet their expectations, they start acting out in need for attention. They set themselves up for disappointment.
Why would a woman need to be provoked? If she is tired of being ignored, she is free to leave.
Any woman who needs attention and throws a tantrum when she does not get what she wants deserves to be alone.
Everyone needs attention on some level, or else we would all live alone in caves never interacting with other people. If the person you are with needs attention that you are not interested in providing, then you are free to leave and find a more compatible relationship. But you don't get to be manipulative and blame that person because his/her level of interest in the relationship is higher than yours, nor do you get to call him/her crazy because you two are on different levels.
Anytime someone says that women are more emotional than men, or that women act on or express their emotions more, I feel like I don't live on the same planet as the person saying that.
To me, men seem far less in control of their emotions. I see men getting angry when someone cuts them off in traffic. I see male politicians starting wars and refusing sensible policies because of their emotional attachments to looking tough and driving big trucks and hating poor people. I see female politicians staying calm and building consensus.
In the relationship department, I see men pushing for poly/open relationships because they want to feel like studs, and then, six months later, pushing to return to monogamy because they cannot handle their jealousy (when their female partner has no trouble handling hers).
On this forum, I see guys ranting about how women are evil... and I see women who can't find dates asking what they can change about themselves, not blaming men.
And I don't think any of this is hardwired, or men's fault. I think sexist society teaches men that their emotions cannot be controlled, they have to only be either suppressed or erupt violently. I see adult men who don't have the self-regulating skills of a 10 year old girl. But I sure wouldn't say men are not emotional.
Anytime someone says that women are more emotional than men, or that women act on or express their emotions more, I feel like I don't live on the same planet as the person saying that.
To me, men seem far less in control of their emotions. I see men getting angry when someone cuts them off in traffic. I see male politicians starting wars and refusing sensible policies because of their emotional attachments to looking tough and driving big trucks and hating poor people. I see female politicians staying calm and building consensus.
In the relationship department, I see men pushing for poly/open relationships because they want to feel like studs, and then, six months later, pushing to return to monogamy because they cannot handle their jealousy (when their female partner has no trouble handling hers).
On this forum, I see guys ranting about how women are evil... and I see women who can't find dates asking what they can change about themselves, not blaming men.
And I don't think any of this is hardwired, or men's fault. I think sexist society teaches men that their emotions cannot be controlled, they have to only be either suppressed or erupt violently. I see adult men who don't have the self-regulating skills of a 10 year old girl. But I sure wouldn't say men are not emotional.
Some men express their feelings in the form of anger, more so than women do. Women, when they do show emotions, it tends to be crying or whatever it may be, in general it's probably a form that is more appropriate for the situation, as opposed to more of a blanket anger thing that a lot of men do.
Anytime someone says that women are more emotional than men, or that women act on or express their emotions more, I feel like I don't live on the same planet as the person saying that.
To me, men seem far less in control of their emotions. I see men getting angry when someone cuts them off in traffic. I see male politicians starting wars and refusing sensible policies because of their emotional attachments to looking tough and driving big trucks and hating poor people. I see female politicians staying calm and building consensus.
In the relationship department, I see men pushing for poly/open relationships because they want to feel like studs, and then, six months later, pushing to return to monogamy because they cannot handle their jealousy (when their female partner has no trouble handling hers).
On this forum, I see guys ranting about how women are evil... and I see women who can't find dates asking what they can change about themselves, not blaming men.
And I don't think any of this is hardwired, or men's fault. I think sexist society teaches men that their emotions cannot be controlled, they have to only be either suppressed or erupt violently. I see adult men who don't have the self-regulating skills of a 10 year old girl. But I sure wouldn't say men are not emotional.
I don't think anyone is saying men aren't emotional, but I'd strongly disagree that they let those emotions dictate their actions as strongly as women. I could address your examples piecemeal, but I feel that would derail the thread. Suffice to say, I feel that your examples either a) apply to women as well, or b) are false or exaggerated. Or, more specifically, I feel that your examples stem from a biased perspective (which, obviously, mine could as well).
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