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Yes. More and more, I am being honest. At first I tried to be gentle...it came off as wishy-washy and didn't get the point across. Then I dropped a bomb of brutal truth on him and he reacted badly. Since then I've made the point that the reason I'm not more forthcoming and communicative is that he either doesn't listen, or he reacts explosively, which I can't and won't deal with again. And while there are times where he stops me, because he has to work on absorbing and processing what he has been told, he is being more self aware, more self controlled, and altogether more reasonable and calm, in the last...what...week? Ish? It's a process. It seems to be getting better all the time.
If that makes sense?
I think I am missing something. Is he behaving better because of this? (for me it's when, in his mind it's if) and this? (For him it's a time to see if we can change and evolve enough to find love in our marriage again).
When you say you are being honest with him then why is he thinking the above?
Being honest is being straight up with him on the fact that there is NO chance in hell that you guys are going to work out this marriage and that you INTEND to move out and start your own new journey in life without him.
I understand why you are taking the baby steps...he is a loose gun toting mentally unstable man when faced with the truth. If he is thinking the above then he is not getting the message at all. He is behaving nice only for the sake of seeing if you both can change and evolve enough to find love in your marriage again.
However, does he know this? ( I already know...we can't. I can't.) That is the honesty that he needs to accept. From all that you say he does not possess the emotional intelligence to process this as the truth.
Does your state have a gun confiscation law that can take guns away from a person who has behaved like your husband?
I can TRY to resolve this in a manner where everyone comes out OK.
He is not waving the gun around anymore. Guns were out a grand total of 3 times in the last year, and not at all before that. It has been made flagrantly clear to him, that if he does that again, I will move to take everything. I will let the laywers and the courts run the show, does he make me an enemy, and he will lose.
I've been married 33 years, and never ONCE has my husband waved a gun at me. Three times? Why in the heck was there a second time? Apparently it was working for him -- whatever you were doing that upset him, you backed off. Now he knows that all he has to do is wave a gun and scare the beejezus out of you by threatening suicide/murder and things will go back to "normal".
This, btw, is not normal. It is a classic form of emotional abuse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
Every time I bring up another point of the whole "I'm leaving" subject, I take a metaphorical step away from him, he clutches tight with anxiety for a moment...and then relaxes and lets me take the step. We have a process going on here. The weave of his desperation and denial is slowly unravelling. I'm watching it every single day.
He relaxes -- because you don't leave. The more you bring it up . . . and don't do it . . . the less seriously he takes it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
My kids love their father. He is very rarely a ranting, raving lunatic...and the boys believe that when he is, it's because I hurt him. And that is true. He just doesn't manage his own emotions well, and it's something he is having to learn.
You are not responsible for his emotions!! And for the boys to believe that you standing up for youself is "hurting" him gives them a warped view of relationship dynamics. Is that what they need to learn? Of course the kids love their father. Most kids will love their parents, unless something heinous happens -- and even then, they will mourn the loss of their idealized love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
I'll keep you guys updated. If he does kill me, you can all be smug about it
Cut the dramatic B.S., ok? NO ONE here wants to see that happen, that's why we have all invested time out of our lives to respond to your posts. What did you expect when you describe him self-medicating with marijuana and threatening you with a gun? Did you expect us to say, "Oh, you can make it work, you just need to try harder/better/more effectively, whatever." Nope. Threatening you or himself with harm is a dealbreaker. I don't give a damn how drunk/high he was when it happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
those who are so sorry for my kids for their parents (even though they are a couple of the most awesome and well adjusted kids I've ever known, I'm sure the People of the Internet know better)...and think he's just like every other bad man you've heard of or known. I have never met another man like my husband. Not a bad thing probably, not sure the world could handle two of him. But he's a human with problems who needs to evolve himself, accept boundaries, and such...he is not a monster. I'm not ready to wish death or imprisonment on him, and the loss of all he loves. Bad enough he's losing the woman he believes is the love of his life. And he is. He really is. I'm doing this, for myself. And I really do think we are all gonna be alright. I know that doesn't make thrilling reading, but I hope and believe it's true.
I can understand that you don't want to open yourself up to the guilt of something happening to him on your watch. But you know, you sound just a tiny bit in denial when you proclaim, "But MY husband is different!" Every single woman who has been a victim of domestic abuse felt the same way about their husband -- why do you think they stuck around and took it? Because they hoped for change, because they could not believe, deep in their heart, that the man they loved was that damaged.
I truly hope that your situation is the exception . . . because the alternative is just too sad to contemplate.
I'm not sticking around, and I'm not giving him false hope. We are spending hours every day talking and going to therapy. I'm trying to do this in a manner that does NOT involve anyone snapping, going off the deep end, being shot dead by the cops.
I get the cops involved, he opens fire on them, they shoot him dead. Period.
I get someone to try and take his guns, he fires on them, they shoot him dead. Period.
I try to take his house and kids, I would either have to snatch the kids and run (which I believe is kidnapping, as he has legal rights at this point in time) he goes bananas and comes after me, have to get the authorities involved, a gunfight ensues, he is shot dead. Period. Full stop.
I'm really not wanting that kind of drama, and I don't know why people think that taking a slightly more gradual and careful approach is somehow less safe than a drastic snap "run away!" which will guarantee an explosion from him...it almost feels like people are scripting this for max drama. And also not believing that I know anything about the people involved despite having lived half my life with them. I really don't care what "they all say." If you can only give advice when it's "do as I tell you or I'm going to lash out and be a judgmental jerk about it" then maybe giving advice isn't your strong suit, seeing as how people are going to live their lives. Seriously though, if I don't do as you say, and it goes sideways, really, I don't mind you being as smug as you like. I'm doing this in a calm, logical, planned, rational manner. Not a "fight or flight" one that plunges my entire family into chaos.
The baby steps approach isn't about nursing his denial, it's about weaning him out of it. So. More progress last night in our talks. I told him that I am now on the waiting list for an apartment complex I've really fallen in love with. He got that "omg it's getting real" look on his face for a minute. We talked for a few hours. By the end of the night he had accepted it and was ok with it.
I'm going to a concert with a friend next week. A male friend. Husband doesn't trust me 100% that I won't sleep with this person. Mind you, he's been saying that the marriage part of our relationship is over and either of us can feel free to find someone else...I know better. I need to be on my own for a while, not even because of him but because of ME. I don't want to wind up in another toxic relationship, and I draw the wrong kind of people right now...I have to resolve my stuff before I even try again ever. Putting my experiment of self into a clean room as it were, focusing on me. But anyhow. He wanted me to promise that if I had sex with this man, I would come home and tell him the truth. Because then he would know that that particular door is completely closed between us, and he hates being deceived and lied to. I told him, the compromise in this situation is as follows: You promise me that violence is completely off the table, and I promise you I'll tell you the truth. He had a very hard time committing to that...but I keep saying it. You want me to be honest, you have to handle yourself. No violence. You have your line in the sand and I have mine.
Nothing is going to happen between me and this friend. I can say this with complete certainty. Even husband doesn't actually think it will. But that is not the point. The point is, he needs to feel that he can trust me, and I need to feel that I can trust him. Otherwise we cannot evolve into friends, which is what we are trying to do as we end our marriage.
Seriously, another step happens every single day. Every day, every week, he's working on himself and I'm working on myself, and we're working towards a future where I can go and we can all be ok.
I keep getting defensive, and I don't want to do that.
Like every person...I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do.
My OP was posted in a time of much chaos and confusion. I've had time to work things out, calm has set in. Things are evolving, and it's going in the right direction in a much healthier way.
I would like for this thread to stay open so that I can update on the situation. I appreciate the advice. I would like for those who have been kind enough to reply, to know how things are going. I don't want to fight with you folks. Just don't take it personally when I do this my way and not yours. It's your opinion, but it's my LIFE. If I believe that your way is much more dangerous...that is the judgment I have to make. But I will let you know how it goes. I'm not too proud to admit when/if I am wrong.
One point I must address...The guns were out 3 times in the last year when he was mentally disturbed. He was not "waving them at me" or aiming them at me, or threatening to shoot me with them. The first time they were propped up against a wall, out of the safe, because he was going to load them into his car and "run away to the woods to live until he died." He wanted to disappear from society. The first time, alcohol was a factor. The second time was the same only no alcohol. Both times were a result of his identity crisis because he is unemployed and feels inadequate as a man because he isn't providing. No brandishing of them occurred either of those times.
This last time scared me more, because he had the handgun out, not because he was running, but because he was feeling confrontational. He was trying to make himself feel strong and in control. He wasn't even "waving it around" but he had the magazine in the weapon, and it was holstered to his leg. At one point he pulled it and pointed it at himself. Then put it back. This was when it all blew up a few weeks ago. He needed/needs professional help. And he is getting it.
Last night I also got though to him that I'm not staying because I think there's any hope for our marriage right now, I'm staying because I need to know that he's going to be OK. That means mentally and emotionall OK, and it also means financially OK since he is working on getting a job and some other things, and we are also talking the "business" end of severing our marriage. All of this was calm, nothing about our talks have been frightening in almost 2 weeks now.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 37,063,024 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
One point I must address...The guns were out 3 times in the last year when he was mentally disturbed. He was not "waving them at me" or aiming them at me, or threatening to shoot me with them. The first time they were propped up against a wall, out of the safe, because he was going to load them into his car and "run away to the woods to live until he died." He wanted to disappear from society. The first time, alcohol was a factor. The second time was the same only no alcohol. Both times were a result of his identity crisis because he is unemployed and feels inadequate as a man because he isn't providing. No brandishing of them occurred either of those times.
This isn't comforting to me in any way, shape or form and I don't think it should be to you or anyone (IMO).
I'm going to a concert with a friend next week. A male friend. Husband doesn't trust me 100% that I won't sleep with this person. Mind you, he's been saying that the marriage part of our relationship is over and either of us can feel free to find someone else...I know better. I need to be on my own for a while, not even because of him but because of ME. I don't want to wind up in another toxic relationship, and I draw the wrong kind of people right now...I have to resolve my stuff before I even try again ever. Putting my experiment of self into a clean room as it were, focusing on me. But anyhow. He wanted me to promise that if I had sex with this man, I would come home and tell him the truth. Because then he would know that that particular door is completely closed between us, and he hates being deceived and lied to. I told him, the compromise in this situation is as follows: You promise me that violence is completely off the table, and I promise you I'll tell you the truth. He had a very hard time committing to that...but I keep saying it. You want me to be honest, you have to handle yourself. No violence. You have your line in the sand and I have mine.
Nothing is going to happen between me and this friend. I can say this with complete certainty. Even husband doesn't actually think it will. But that is not the point. The point is, he needs to feel that he can trust me, and I need to feel that I can trust him. Otherwise we cannot evolve into friends, which is what we are trying to do as we end our marriage.
Seriously, another step happens every single day. Every day, every week, he's working on himself and I'm working on myself, and we're working towards a future where I can go and we can all be ok.
You are fanning the flames of fire, OP.
Right now, the situation is so turbulent and volatile, why would you goad him by going out with your male friend?
This isn't comforting to me in any way, shape or form and I don't think it should be to you or anyone (IMO).
Not trying to be comforting. Trying to clarify. I sensed some disconnect between what people were saying and what really occurred.
Honestly, some people are not comfortable with guns. We've all had enough school shootings and other incidents to where that discomfort is compounded vastly by signs of mental instability. I happen to agree--I'm not comfortable with them either, and moreso when an unstable person is involved. My choices are either to try and get rid of the guns, which will make him violent because he believes he has the right to own them....or get him sane.
The plan to get him sane, he is aware of this and fully cooperative with it. He understands that him lacking control of his behavior and emotions is not only unacceptable, it's even more so when he brings violence and/or weapons into the picture in any way. He gets that this is the one thing that could cause him to lose everything that matters to him in life. Now, if I were just sitting here saying, "Well, he totally gets it so we're fine and everything is ok" then I'd be moving out right now. But I need some time to observe the development of the situation and his progress to be sure about this. I'm willing to accept the personal risk involved, to me, to be absolutely sure. We are all working on this together and it is a process. But it's going well so far.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 37,063,024 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
Honestly, some people are not comfortable with guns. We've all had enough school shootings and other incidents to where that discomfort is compounded vastly by signs of mental instability. I happen to agree--I'm not comfortable with them either, and moreso when an unstable person is involved. My choices are either to try and get rid of the guns, which will make him violent because he believes he has the right to own them....or get him sane.
Right now, the situation is so turbulent and volatile, why would you goad him by going out with your male friend?
Right now the situation is not turbulent, nor is it volatile. It's been calm for a week. It was turbulent. It was volatile. But that catharsis, that explosion, had this aftermath where we are actually being more honest with one another about what we need to do, how we need to grow, and what needs to happen. You have NO IDEA how good it feels, after 18 years of pretending everything was fine when it wasn't, to finally be able to be honest.
I'm going to this show because I spent a lot on these plans months ago, and I'm going to have a nice time with my friend. My husband needs to let go and he understands that, as our marriage is ending, he cannot continue to control me. His issue is that he's afraid he will be lied to. Well the honest truth is that it is easier for me to NOT sleep with someone, than it is for me to do it and then be honest about it. Sex isn't even an option with me and this friend. But I told him, I will play along with your exercise, and if you promise to adhere to the "I can handle the truth and not be violent" then the truth you will get, and you can ask your questions and get honest answers. I know there won't be anything to tell...and he kinda knows that too...yet he is working on his anxieties.
It's weird, I know. It's about defining boundaries that we need as individuals in the friendship we are trying to build here. We both know that those boundaries will evolve and change over time, too, especially after I move out.
Get me and the kids out of the house and then call armed authorities to come over so there can be a gunfight and he can be killed?
Because I really don't know how to "GET OUT NOW" any other way.
I keep trying to make this point...why does anyone think it's OK for me to basically murder him via cop? I don't want to do this. And if you think he'll go peacefully and just give up everything he's worked for all his life, then you're the one in denial...
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