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Women are very different in their characters and some women wants to be leaded. And then some women don't. Most important thing to learn from other gender is to get to know her or him as individual. Men are not all same, women are not all same.
Yet you spent the bulk of your post saying how people who do things differently than you are essentially wrong. Stating that these sorts of relationships are "fake", that guys who lead their relationships need therapy, and that the "best" way to be in a relationship is your way.
Yup, you're speaking from your POV. And crapping on other relationships in the process. It's that second part that I have an issue with.
Is it not possible for you to speak about your relationship without comparing it to others? Without saying, literally, that what you do is the "best" way?
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Originally Posted by soUlwounD
This means I speak from my view of point and set my rules and introduce them and you are very fine to introduce yours. I don't care how submissive you want to be, that is your life. Crawl and serve as much as you want. Let him dominate, master and lead you, believe what you want. You choose for you, I choose for me. You don't have to like mine and I certainly don't have to like yours.
It's obvious that you don't like mine. And that's fine. My response is to your need to compare your relationship to what you think mine is. And crap on, literally, what you don't understand.
Yet you spent the bulk of your post saying how people who do things differently than you are essentially wrong. Stating that these sorts of relationships are "fake", that guys who lead their relationships need therapy, and that the "best" way to be in a relationship is your way.
Of course they are wrong from my view of point as I am wrong in many posters view of point. We don't agree of things or views, that is why we discuss and try to open our views to other people.
I said: When there is a problem the best thing is to listen all parties opinions and knowledge and choose the one which is best solution in this situation from all views of points and not choose something just because "hubby or dad says".. Says what? If he says something stupid which is not working, he needs to study more. No family should suffer just because a guy wants to "feel a man in the house"... Like go to therapy, there is no need to be in a such need..
Yes, if a guy has obsessional need to feel to be a man at house... And things are not done by rational boundaries but only because authority is given to him.. It tells about lot of problems. A person with healthy self confidence does not need anything to lift his "ego", not a tyranny position at house.
Ermmmm...... What comes to fake, I think you did not focus the main point.. "These structures that are builded are fake, just as "femininity" , it is builded and paid for long bill."
You must know that all structures are builded, therefore they are fake. Cultural habits are builded and changing. Women were home decorations and baby machines at 1800, that is builded = fake. Most women did not wanted to be, they were raised and forced to be. When there is builded form it is fake.
You can choose to do it by your free will, of course, that is your life and your choice now.
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Yup, you're speaking from your POV. And crapping on other relationships in the process. It's that second part that I have an issue with.
I mostly tell why things are harming and wrong because domestic violence rates are huge. Domestic violence mostly exist in dominant relationships. Violent one could be either female or male. Many spouses start to have issues at early point of relationship when one takes a lead. It also goes forward so quietly that people itself cannot see it. First small things, then more and bigger things. It secretly starts to eat that one who is settled into submissive position. First it is cool and then it is not so cool anymore but actually destroying.
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Is it not possible for you to speak about your relationship without comparing it to others? Without saying, literally, that what you do is the "best" way?
Of course not, I use examples. My way is best way to me.
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It's obvious that you don't like mine. And that's fine. My response is to your need to compare your relationship to what you think mine is. And crap on, literally, what you don't understand.
I am glad you are fine with it. I did not quote you but other posters so I don't know why you are attacking me exactly
Maybe actually you don't understand the situations that I am referring to? Maybe you are just thinking your own relationship as only option and forget there is lot of tyranny in dominant relationships which actually are causing lot of mental problems to spouses and kids.
What works for you don't necessarily work for others
Yes, there is lot of things in the world that are against my values. This is discussion forum and I enjoy of open my view of point for things that I bother to reply. I try to increase understanding for those points that are explanations and important from my pov.
What I do is the best way for me, works for me and that is how we maintain our marriage as my hubby has no obsession to be my boss but loving companion.
See the op:s post
"I have noticed with past boyfriends including the one I am currently involved with being seen as tough and dominate is a huge thing. Sure they can vary in different ways and they can be more or less caring and understanding, but for example my current bf as well as other past boyfriends really love their shoot/kill and destroy video games. I know it may seem as a minor thing to complain about but to me it just seems like an adolescent male power fantasy, am I the only one?"
No, op is not only one and here I am speaking about dominating and replying to thread subject from my pov and you suddenly have issue with people who have issue with dominant guys who wants to discuss of issue of dominant guys on this spesific thread which is dedicated for it?
You certainly have problems but they might be solved if you increase your sight a bit bigger from yours.
Yes, if a guy has obsessional need to feel to be a man at house... And things are not done by rational boundaries but only because authority is given to him.. It tells about lot of problems. A person with healthy self confidence does not need anything to lift his "ego", not a tyranny position at house.
And here is an example of where you have painted with an extremely broad brush, and you have literally transformed what you view as your "POV" to some sort of universal truth.
I will try to explain something to you here.
"These relationships" come in many different forms. I am speaking from my own experience when I say that I have given him authority to make decisions in our relationship. As I said earlier, it's because I trust him as much as I do that I've been able to enter into such a relationship with him.
Does he have a "need" to *gag* "be a man at house"? Probably. Just as much as I have a "need" to be with someone who I can comfortably give that title to. At the end of it, this sort of relationship dynamic is one that makes both of us happy and fulfilled.
He's not a tyrant. I wouldn't be with someone who had those tendencies.
I'd agree with you that someone with some sort of obsession about all of this probably would benefit from therapy. Just as anyone else who has an "obsessional need" for anything.
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Originally Posted by soUlwounD
I mostly tell why things are harming and wrong because domestic violence rates are huge. Domestic violence mostly exist in dominant relationships. Violent one could be either female or male. Many spouses start to have issues at early point of relationship when one takes a lead. It also goes forward so quietly that people itself cannot see it. First small things, then more and bigger things. It secretly starts to eat that one who is settled into submissive position. First it is cool and then it is not so cool anymore but actually destroying.
Where did you get this information, that domestic violence occurs mostly in relationships where one party is dominant? And how do you know what the person in the submissive position is feeling?
Honestly, I'd like to know where actual studies have been done on this.
You are painting this with a very broad brush, and I'd like to know where you got your information.
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Originally Posted by soUlwounD
Of course not, I use examples. My way is best way to me.
They honestly strike me as generalizations and stereotypes.
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Originally Posted by soUlwounD
I am glad you are fine with it. I did not quote you but other posters so I don't know why you are attacking me exactly
I didn't think I was "attacking you". I was responding to your comments which, as I said, mainly strike me as generalizations and stereotypes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soUlwounD
Maybe actually you don't understand the situations that I am referring to? Maybe you are just thinking your own relationship as only option and forget there is lot of tyranny in dominant relationships which actually are causing lot of mental problems to spouses and kids.
Again, I would like to see where you got your information about this.
As I understand it, DV unfortunately happens in all types of relationships. I'd honestly like to see where the numbers are for consensual relationships between dominants and submissives.
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Originally Posted by soUlwounD
What works for you don't necessarily work for others
A lot of people in this world would benefit greatly by understanding this very simple concept.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soUlwounD
What I do is the best way for me, works for me and that is how we maintain our marriage as my hubby has no obsession to be my boss but loving companion.
And here's where there might be a disconnect.
I would consider my partner absolutely to be my loving companion. The two are not all all necessarily mutually exclusive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soUlwounD
No, op is not only one and here I am speaking about dominating and replying to thread subject from my pov and you suddenly have issue with people who have issue with dominant guys who wants to discuss of issue of dominant guys on this spesific thread which is dedicated for it?
I have no issue whatsoever with this discussion. What I do have issue with are people putting out generalizations and false stereotypes about these sorts of relationships.
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Originally Posted by soUlwounD
You certainly have problems but they might be solved if you increase your sight a bit bigger from yours.
When was the last time someone told you that the relationship between you and your husband wasn't a "real adult relationship"?
When was the last time that someone said that it was obvious that you belonged to a cult or were on the "fringes of society" because of the relationship that you have with your husband?
When was the last time that someone verbally crapped on your relationship because it doesn't conform to their standards of what "should be"?
Yup, I have problems, like everyone else in the world. One of them, however, is decidedly not the lack of capacity to understand that it is not my position to judge and perpetuate stereotypes about what consenting adults choose to do in their own relationships.
Yes, I speak about my own relationship. What I do not do however is speak about it in terms that would imply that I feel that it is "better" than others, or the empirical "right" way to do things- that is that others should be doing the same thing.
It's a shame that some people can't do the same. There's a lot of education around if people open their eyes to it.
I have noticed with past boyfriends including the one I am currently involved with being seen as tough and dominate is a huge thing. Sure they can vary in different ways and they can be more or less caring and understanding, but for example my current bf as well as other past boyfriends really love their shoot/kill and destroy video games. I know it may seem as a minor thing to complain about but to me it just seems like an adolescent male power fantasy, am I the only one?
You must be drawn to this sort of personality, for whatever reason.
And here is an example of where you have painted with an extremely broad brush, and you have literally transformed what you view as your "POV" to some sort of universal truth.
I will try to explain something to you here.
"These relationships" come in many different forms. I am speaking from my own experience when I say that I have given him authority to make decisions in our relationship. As I said earlier, it's because I trust him as much as I do that I've been able to enter into such a relationship with him.
Does he have a "need" to *gag* "be a man at house"? Probably. Just as much as I have a "need" to be with someone who I can comfortably give that title to. At the end of it, this sort of relationship dynamic is one that makes both of us happy and fulfilled.
He's not a tyrant. I wouldn't be with someone who had those tendencies.
I'd agree with you that someone with some sort of obsession about all of this probably would benefit from therapy. Just as anyone else who has an "obsessional need" for anything.
Where did you get this information, that domestic violence occurs mostly in relationships where one party is dominant? And how do you know what the person in the submissive position is feeling?
Honestly, I'd like to know where actual studies have been done on this.
You are painting this with a very broad brush, and I'd like to know where you got your information.
They honestly strike me as generalizations and stereotypes.
I didn't think I was "attacking you". I was responding to your comments which, as I said, mainly strike me as generalizations and stereotypes.
Again, I would like to see where you got your information about this.
As I understand it, DV unfortunately happens in all types of relationships. I'd honestly like to see where the numbers are for consensual relationships between dominants and submissives.
A lot of people in this world would benefit greatly by understanding this very simple concept.
And here's where there might be a disconnect.
I would consider my partner absolutely to be my loving companion. The two are not all all necessarily mutually exclusive.
I have no issue whatsoever with this discussion. What I do have issue with are people putting out generalizations and false stereotypes about these sorts of relationships.
When was the last time someone told you that the relationship between you and your husband wasn't a "real adult relationship"?
When was the last time that someone said that it was obvious that you belonged to a cult or were on the "fringes of society" because of the relationship that you have with your husband?
When was the last time that someone verbally crapped on your relationship because it doesn't conform to their standards of what "should be"?
Yup, I have problems, like everyone else in the world. One of them, however, is decidedly not the lack of capacity to understand that it is not my position to judge and perpetuate stereotypes about what consenting adults choose to do in their own relationships.
Yes, I speak about my own relationship. What I do not do however is speak about it in terms that would imply that I feel that it is "better" than others, or the empirical "right" way to do things- that is that others should be doing the same thing.
It's a shame that some people can't do the same. There's a lot of education around if people open their eyes to it.
It is tirening to write always with exactly numbers and adding links on everything, also it takes time to google. You could do googling by yourself if you want numbers and studies.
I told you, do what you want to... Think what you want to... So do I
Where I get my information.. Straight from the victims, studies, therapists, magazines, articles, statistics etc.
Now I am not asking you to explain your relationship to me really. You can have it and keep it just as you like. I am exactly speaking in general level according to studies and rl cases at past.
No, violence does not exist in all type of relationships.. It is indeed what makes a difference in human nature. We do have some certain defined things which has common meanings so we could understand meaning of the words and communicate. When people have these mental and physical stoppers which are working right they don't hurt other people.
"Domestic violence — also known as domestic abuse, intimate partner violence or abuse — may start when one partner feels the need to control and dominate the other.Abusers may feel this need to control their partner because of low self-esteem, extreme jealousy, difficulties in regulating anger and other strong emotions, or when they feel inferior to the other partner in education and socioeconomic background.
Some people with very traditional beliefs may think they have the right to control their partner, and that women aren’t equal to men"
"However it is a valid argument to suggest that male power and dominance, in the form of a distorted belief that men have a right to control their partners through violence or fear of violence, is a major reason for domestic violence which explains the significance of the relationship with male power." https://www.booksie.com/posting/stua...qe5qM9ss8uq.99
I am not sorry but I think relationship without domestic violence is better to every woman than with domestic violence. I stand for it Also many times submissive women have their own problems why they are staying or thinking that is how it should be.
Again, you are so free to believe and think what ever you want and live just as you want to. I have enough material behind me to state that healthy adults don't need any dominating or controlling. There is always some problems behind.
You can believe freely in different sources.
Last edited by soUlwounD; 06-18-2016 at 02:38 PM..
It is tirening to write always with exactly numbers and adding links on everything, also it takes time to google. You could do googling by yourself if you want numbers and studies.
I know, right? It's such a pain when one makes a generalized statement and is actually asked to back it up with something verifiable.
The nerve of some people, I tell you.
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Originally Posted by soUlwounD
Where I get my information.. Straight from the victims, studies, therapists, magazines, articles, statistics etc.
So, just your "general knowledge".
That's really all you needed to say. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soUlwounD
Now I am not asking you to explain your relationship to me really. You can have it and keep it just as you like. I am exactly speaking in general level according to studies and rl cases at past.
I "can have it"? Thanks.
I'm also happy to see that you can acknowledge that you are speaking in generalities.
No, I'm not "attacking you" or "picking on you" or anything of the sort. What you have done here is the same thing that many people do, probably not meaning ill by it at all. Taking, for example, this idea of what the "submissive mindset" is in terms of DV, you have painted with such a big brush so as really to make what you have said meaningless. At the same time, you've put it forward as something black and white- "submissive people feel this...". Whether or not you want to believe it, I can tell you with all certainty that you cannot make accurate generalities about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soUlwounD
No, violence does not exist in all type of relationships.. It is indeed what makes a difference in human nature. We do have some certain defined things which has common meanings so we could understand meaning of the words and communicate. When people have these mental and physical stoppers which are working right they don't hurt other people.
To be clear, what I meant by that is that DV is not, by any means, restricted to those relationships where one party is dominant and the other submissive.
"Domestic violence — also known as domestic abuse, intimate partner violence or abuse — may start when one partner feels the need to control and dominate the other.Abusers may feel this need to control their partner because of low self-esteem, extreme jealousy, difficulties in regulating anger and other strong emotions, or when they feel inferior to the other partner in education and socioeconomic background.
[CENTER]
[/CENTER] Some people with very traditional beliefs may think they have the right to control their partner, and that women aren’t equal to men"
I took the liberty of bolding a simple, yet IMO important word, in what you quoted. To me, the use of "may" and "some" within this writing indicates a relatively clear message that not all DV comes from a place of someone insisting on being "dominant", or that all of these sorts of relationships come from a place of one "needing to control their partner". Revelatory stuff, I know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soUlwounD
I am not sorry but I think relationship without domestic violence is better to every woman than with domestic violence. I stand for it Also many times submissive women have their own problems why they are staying or thinking that is how it should be.
Of course a relationship without DV is better for all involved, I don't think anyone who is sane would argue otherwise.
I'm curious though, what do you believe a "submissive's problems" would be in this sort of situation?
Yes, I know that I can "Google it", but I'd like to know what you think that these problems are.
Yup, I think this is fairly common knowledge. I'm not clear though on what it has to do, specifically, with the topic at hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soUlwounD
Again, you are so free to believe and think what ever you want and live just as you want to. I have enough material behind me to state that healthy adults don't need any dominating or controlling. There is always some problems behind.
The fact that you don't see how problematic this statement is really doesn't surprise me.
Until you realize that your "statement" is not universal truth, I'm done.
I know, right? It's such a pain when one makes a generalized statement and is actually asked to back it up with something verifiable.
The nerve of some people, I tell you.
So, just your "general knowledge".
That's really all you needed to say. Thanks.
I "can have it"? Thanks.
I'm also happy to see that you can acknowledge that you are speaking in generalities.
No, I'm not "attacking you" or "picking on you" or anything of the sort. What you have done here is the same thing that many people do, probably not meaning ill by it at all. Taking, for example, this idea of what the "submissive mindset" is in terms of DV, you have painted with such a big brush so as really to make what you have said meaningless. At the same time, you've put it forward as something black and white- "submissive people feel this...". Whether or not you want to believe it, I can tell you with all certainty that you cannot make accurate generalities about this.
To be clear, what I meant by that is that DV is not, by any means, restricted to those relationships where one party is dominant and the other submissive.
I took the liberty of bolding a simple, yet IMO important word, in what you quoted. To me, the use of "may" and "some" within this writing indicates a relatively clear message that not all DV comes from a place of someone insisting on being "dominant", or that all of these sorts of relationships come from a place of one "needing to control their partner". Revelatory stuff, I know.
Of course a relationship without DV is better for all involved, I don't think anyone who is sane would argue otherwise.
I'm curious though, what do you believe a "submissive's problems" would be in this sort of situation?
Yes, I know that I can "Google it", but I'd like to know what you think that these problems are.
Yup, I think this is fairly common knowledge. I'm not clear though on what it has to do, specifically, with the topic at hand.
The fact that you don't see how problematic this statement is really doesn't surprise me.
Until you realize that your "statement" is not universal truth, I'm done.
You already said you have missread my posts and it is valid what I meant. You are giving my statements a new different context, you are taking my context that I settled away and settling my statements into your personal life context. That is your problem with my posts.
I repeat my context in this certain thread with this certain subject.
In general level your relationship is not dominant if he does not dominate you, if he dominates you, then you and he has problems why you choose your roles. Dominating always includes the factor of someone has power over you, otherwise you are just fantazying of being dominated.
“Dominance – Abusive individuals need to feel in charge of the relationship. They will make decisions for you and the family, tell you what to do, and expect you to obey without question. Your abuser may treat you like a servant, child, or even as his or her possession.” Signs of Abuse and Unhealthy Relationships – Ross-shire Women's Aid
"Ehrensasft et al. (1999) has suggested that there are four distinct areas where control and domination can be expressed in a relationship. The first area is in decision making. Often, in psychologically abusive relationships, one partner makes all the major decisions about where to vacation, what to buy, how much to spend, where to live, what church to attend, etc. Even when the other person has strong opinions, he/she is not allowed equal access to decision making. Such abused partners may present as though they really don't have strong preferences; however a little clinical scratching often reveals that whenever they do voice a preference, rejection and control are exercised by the offending partner."
An abuser is morbidly insecure. S/he (yes, potentially, she) has little sense of his/her own social value and makes an effort to gain or re-gain some semblance of that value through domination and control. The fear that feeds that insecurity has two fronts: fear of not being lovable, and fear of appearing weak. The paradox here is that the abuser is, in fact, weak, which is why s/he abuses -- to maintain a sense of control -- in the first place. The perceived inconsistency on the part of the abuser by the victim is that the victim is not submitting to the abuser's domination.
The victim is also morbidly insecure and for surprisingly similar reasons. S/he also has little sense of his/her own social value, but makes an effort to establish that value by losing him/herself to the demand for submission. The fear that feeds this insecurity is also about not being lovable or loved, and there is a willingness to accept the inconsistency of the abuser's attention for the sake of being loved. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...-relationships
Some people (I know many) after their husbands die or they divorce, they cannot do a thing sometimes for years because everything is done decades for them. Also they are afraid of consequences or responsibility because their husbands did all. They might not have actual self-respect because self was gone so long. Self was not ever committed, self never ended up real. Many women are lost actually. Not yet talking about the years of their lives that they lost.
Even, though, studies tend to leave extreme result off, they are "universal truth" till someone proves them wrong or introduces equal but different results.
You need to prove you absolutely not belong into any categories in symptoms and anything what psychologist, former victims, studies and other sources or my personal experiences shows. Why you would not instead, just introduce your relationship and its awesomeness in practical examples of dominative moments of your reality that you have to validate by yourself to you. You cannot have my blessing to your choosed path, nor you need it.
You are saying "no" to many posters but you don't show any data nor tell your personal experiences for example to show what your view is and how you are thinking it all through inside your mind. How you are dominated actually?
I cannot say I would be interest to know in personal level but as you are marking many posters mistakes, why not do it with teaching and sharing your knowledge and opinion well. Prove yourself, why universal truth and studies above does not fit into you, your husband and your relationship? Or is your relationship dominant in this context at all? Are you just proving your relationship is not dominant and abusive? If the shoe does not fit why you are actually critizing?
No need to do that for me either. I have my pov, I write of it and I basic my views of studies etc. which creates my "universal truth" about things. Then if someone wants to bring more data, personal or sources that I don't value, that is her or his universal truth. We all have our inner moral which tells what is valid information to us.
I don't know if any forum would work if every special group and individual human being should be mentioned by every each poster in their every post... I cannot see you doing it either. You only remind your view as everyone else but you are not introducing those thousands other views that are still left. Where are your sources and links?
For me to follow in my life there is still only one truth and one path.
Your example of the need to be "dominating" is shooter games?
I love shooter games, and so does my husband. We both make household decisions pretty equally and I don't ever feel like he controls me. I'm curious what you think a dominating and controlling man is, because from your post it seems like a guy who happens to enjoy shooter games. Meh.
Well.. You haven't seen some guys play video games then. They can get rather demanding and vulgar
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Also many times submissive women have their own problems why they are staying or thinking that is how it should be.