Do Men Really Like Independent Women? (boys, picture, stereotypes, Latina)
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There again, you are speaking for all men of color or another culture or ethnicity. That's not realistic. I've always been capable of being independent even when I was married to a middle easterner, and I have dated both Black and Hispanic men. Always independent.
And the idea that independent women are toxic is laughable. Clearly you've had bad experiences, but that doesn't mean independent women are toxic. There were likely other factors going on, rather than "independence."
I informed you that I've always been independent, even when married to a middle easterner, or dating a Black or Hispanic man. Don't assume that every man of color is like you. Refrain from making absolute statements. https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_truth
We do not like independent women and never have. The only men I've seen who like women like that are (usually white) liberal men that play a passive role in their relationships. I've never seen a black man, persian, or latino enthralled with a woman whose independent. It's not our culture.
Interesting take, I guess. I mean, if you really want to go there, there are "cultures" (mostly groups entrenched in traditionalism, religious zealotry, or macho paternalistic ideologies) where they still take child brides in arranged marriages.
So yeah, I guess I do prefer to be an "independent woman" with my white, relatively (to that^) liberal husband. Though I would not describe him as "passive." I see the need to be overly aggressive and the use of a word like "passive" for a man who respects independence in women, to be a thin mask over a frightened and insecure man's personality. It's schoolyard bully thinking. It does not command any respect from me. And "might makes right" thinking is only cool if you like being at perpetual war with others. I'm not really in favor of the idea of living that way. And I believe that it is inextricably tied to the kind of dominance posturing that you are implying in this post, though it really is not exclusive to any race.
And I have met plenty of men who were not ethnically white, who did not participate in this kind of behavior.
And there are plenty of white men who strive to assert control in relationships by seeking dependency in partners, too. Hell, if anything, when this manifests in a man who makes a show of being "progressive" or liberal, feminist, whatever...it is even more insidious. Because it's an attempt of the wolf to put on sheep's clothing...it is false. So I don't really think that it's a racial thing. But yes, perhaps a cultural, or political, one, or a question of whether one is involved in paternalistic religious or cultural traditions....but far more a symptom of a man who has been badly treated by other men or lives in a state of competitive anxiety where he's got to constantly "prove" himself. While maybe that's more common or normal in some cultures...it can show up anywhere.
I find it very interesting that you champion this mindset while calling independent women, "toxic." An accusation that is truly a confession, or, "projection" at work perhaps. But not really my place to say...as the answer to that question would be in whether you are "enjoying your life" as you say... I, an independent woman, am most definitely enjoying mine.
We do not like independent women and never have. The only men I've seen who like women like that are (usually white) liberal men that play a passive role in their relationships. I've never seen a black man, persian, or latino enthralled with a woman whose independent. It's not our culture.
Well, you're wrong. Neither I nor my best friend of thirteen years are white.
Interesting take, I guess. I mean, if you really want to go there, there are "cultures" (mostly groups entrenched in traditionalism, religious zealotry, or macho paternalistic ideologies) where they still take child brides in arranged marriages.
So yeah, I guess I do prefer to be an "independent woman" with my white, relatively (to that^) liberal husband. Though I would not describe him as "passive." I see the need to be overly aggressive and the use of a word like "passive" for a man who respects independence in women, to be a thin mask over a frightened and insecure man's personality. It's schoolyard bully thinking. It does not command any respect from me. And "might makes right" thinking is only cool if you like being at perpetual war with others. I'm not really in favor of the idea of living that way. And I believe that it is inextricably tied to the kind of dominance posturing that you are implying in this post, though it really is not exclusive to any race.
...
I find it very interesting that you champion this mindset while calling independent women, "toxic." An accusation that is truly a confession, or, "projection" at work perhaps. But not really my place to say... as the answer to that question would be in whether you are "enjoying your life" as you say... I, an independent woman, am most definitely enjoying mine.
Since it became common for women to work in the labor force, stark differences have arisen in the kinds of work men and women choose to do. 99% of kindergarten teachers are women, while 99% of HVAC workers are men, as just two examples.
Human nature doesn't change even though society changes. I find that fascinating.
And you really think those two examples are representative of ALL of "human nature"?
First of all, since Arabella Mansfield was admitted to the bar in 1869, women now dominate the legal field as attorneys in the US.
Four out of nine Justices of the Supreme Court are women.
Oh, and isn't it interesting that of the two fields you chose to represent 'human nature' that the field of education requires an advanced degree...whereas, HVAC does not?
Perhaps women are choosing fields where they get to use their brains.
There are a lot of men who do. Not the majority by a long shot, but plenty of them. You will hear from them online as they talk about going to foreign countries to buy a wife (trade a green card for an obedient wife.)
Then there are some men who don't want subservient. I had a foreign bride, Russian, as a tenant and she couldn't even tie her shoe without consulting her husband. My son would roll his eyes and declared that she would drive him absolutely crazy and he couldn't understand how her husband could stand it.... and he apparently couldn't since he abandoned her and their two kids and just walked away.
I suspect that the majority of men prefer a woman who can at least take care of daily business by themselves without calling them several times a day to check in and get his permission. And probably most men who get married would prefer that the wife earn a decent paycheck, even if the wife wasn't an important professional.
We do not like independent women and never have. The only men I've seen who like women like that are (usually white) liberal men that play a passive role in their relationships. ......
Perhaps you have a limited pool of acquaintances? I always dated the most macho of the macho, race car drivers, bull riders, that sort and they were always team leaders and every one of them wanted a smart active woman who could keep up with them and who refused to be bullied and who could take care of business without being supervised. Of course, they were confident pack leaders and didn't have any ego insecurities. Passive submissive woman very quickly bored them.
There are a lot of men who do. Not the majority by a long shot, but plenty of them. You will hear from them online as they talk about going to foreign countries to buy a wife (trade a green card for an obedient wife.)
Then there are some men who don't want subservient. I had a foreign bride, Russian, as a tenant and she couldn't even tie her shoe without consulting her husband. My son would roll his eyes and declared that she would drive him absolutely crazy and he couldn't understand how her husband could stand it.... and he apparently couldn't since he abandoned her and their two kids and just walked away.
I suspect that the majority of men prefer a woman who can at least take care of daily business by themselves without calling them several times a day to check in and get his permission. And probably most men who get married would prefer that the wife earn a decent paycheck, even if the wife wasn't an important professional.
Those guys don't know what they're in for, if they think all Latinas, Asians, and others are some weak, subservient dames. I've heard of a few who become disillusioned down the road and may divorce.
But ya, I never found the appeal of being with someone who couldn't do anything for themselves. Some guys get an ego boost from being "needed" to do everything ("manly", that is).
Women today aren't exactly like women in the 1950s, but neither are guys, so unless they're prepared to make some huge changes themselves, it's best left to the imagination.
And you really think those two examples are representative of ALL of "human nature"?
First of all, since Arabella Mansfield was admitted to the bar in 1869, women now dominate the legal field as attorneys in the US.
Four out of nine Justices of the Supreme Court are women.
Oh, and isn't it interesting that of the two fields you chose to represent 'human nature' that the field of education requires an advanced degree...whereas, HVAC does not?
Perhaps women are choosing fields where they get to use their brains.
Right- you can also see other fields with similar distributions with no indication that one gender is innately more capable. For example, most professional chefs are men, but women tend to be expected to cook within the home environment. I had a friend who I think is about 40 now who went to culinary school and quickly decided it was not compatible with her desire to have a family. I think she eventually got her master’s degree and is now a dietician (where more than 90% are women).
Another field with skewed distributions is the larger area of fitness. A large majority of physical and occupational therapists are women, but men make up a super majority of personal trainers. I would say that goes somewhat to your argument that the key difference is advanced training, as you can’t become an OT or PT without a graduate degree, and some people do additional training from there to specialize further.
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