Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Absolutely right on. Thanks for writing what I was finding difficult to say. Especially this:
What I have found is that some men think that even with all their problems they deserve to be in a relationship and do nothing to improve their attitude or their situation so that a healthy relationship is even possible.
This is a sensitive subject because it seems like I'm pointing fingers and opening myself to lash back but I've found over the years that a lot of women agree with this. And to be fair, there are a lot of women with huge issues too.
There is also this. Are you familiar with spontaneous vs responsive sexual desire? Spontaneous sexual desire is the spontaneous interest in sex with out any additional stimulation. 75% of men have spontaneous sexual desire and 85% of women do not have spontaneous sexual desire. See more at the jump if you are interested.
Why that matters that there are quite a few men and women who by age 40 are pretty burned out on dating and the other gender. But for the women with responsive sexual desire who may some issues with men, especially if they have already had kids or just given up on the idea of having kids, they may decide to just completely drop out of the dating pool at this point and say why bother. After age 40, there are a lot of women who are single and just not interested in dating at all. Sex feels more optional for these women so it is just much easier for women with responsive sexual desire to exit the dating pool, so they do.
That is not true for men to the same extent because they have spontaneous sexual desire. These guys may have some serious issues with women and really not actually like women but they still want to have sex with women and so they are generally online. These two factors toether help explain why the online dating ratio is really bad for men. There literally can be 2 or 3 men online for every woman. But this also explains why women have this really favorable gender ratio online, still have a really bad dating experience online just the same. Yes you are getting a lot of responses from men online, but it is really over weighted with guys you probably do not want to date.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentropa
Well, so far no man in this thread has said he is not attracted to "independent" women.
I will say this neediness is not an especially attractive trait, being independent though might be one of these expansive concepts like say 'sexy', that means different things to different people. Lots of guys might say they are looking for a woman who is sexy, but there can be a disagreement among men over whether say Sarah Jessica Parker or Hillary Swank are or are not 'sexy'.
So I will say that when a woman says in her online dating profile that she is a strong independent woman, I really have no idea what she is talking about because I am not really sure if we are having a meeting of minds over what this term means in a given situation. I mean is or is not Ivanka Trump or Bree Larson a strong independent woman? I think different people might come to different conclusions on both of those women. So in practice on a dating profile, it can function as a dating cliche like 'I like long walks on the beach' and eating 'chocolate'. It is telling me more how this woman wants to think about herself, than it really is telling me about who this woman really is herself.
I don't believe in competing. To me, love isn't about competition. For some people it obviously is, but not me. I know that some men like to see women fighting over them. It makes them feel like a prize to be won. For some people that works.
So do some women. !!!!!!!
But tbh , in everything you talk about and the way you talk and seem to think, it just sounds like you just don't understand the simplicity and beauty of compleness.Like you've almost turned it all into some competition or battle, l mean wth. Or even this some dance stuff as you call if it does come down to that for you, then that's just some bs game if it does. It wouldn't though and doesn't, not when it's real, and love.
Anyway , it's pretty clear that if you really wanted to be in a happy and real , relationship or marriage, doesn't sound like you do though really , it sounds like you despise the whole concept and eh , good luck to you live how you see fit and what works for you. But if you did- your rewiring is too much for just some forum.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 37,087,829 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by pathrunner
That's great but it's not the norm. Not by a long shot. One has to remember that men are looking for (1) looks, (2) fertility, (3) good job (money), (4) often a good family. Later in life, they want you to have your own money and in a decent or high amount, your own nice house, your own very nice car, etc. That's what strong, independent, professional women can provide.
And yes, college educated men tend to like self-actualized women.
It's the norm from what I see around me.
And your ordered list doesn't include any of my top four priorities.
I've never ever ever heard a guy friend say he is looking for "fertility" in a woman.
Last edited by timberline742; 11-05-2022 at 04:47 PM..
If men want kids, of course fertility is a priority in a partner. Even though of course there is no guarantee that a woman is fertile if she hasn't had children yet, this is a major reason dating is harder for women over 40. Many men their own age who are actually interested in marriage would like to have kids. And even if they don't, they are subconsciously more attracted to women in the "fertile age range."
Of course there are also men and women of all ages who don't want kids, but women age out of it a lot faster than men do, and this is a factor in the difficulty of slightly-older women getting dates.
My whole take on the independence thing is that in general, relationships work best when people have common goals and values and interests, sure, but also when one person's strong points complement the other person's weak points, and vice versa. If someone comes across as so determinedly independent and self-sufficient that they have no weak points and therefore no need for another human being in their life, that is off-putting. That isn't even appealing in a friendship, let alone a romantic relationship. A little vulnerability here and there is helpful because it makes another person feel like they might have something to offer you.
It's not about simple attraction or attractiveness though. I wish I could find the article I read a while back. It's about a primal sense that males have about females, and whether they are a good genetic candidate for progeny. That's about all I can say about it right now. I hope someone will chime in about it.
When I was younger, I finally got away from my parents in my junior year of college. That's when I began the journey of being independent. It took a few years to really get there, but by about age 24 I moved to San Francisco, had great paying jobs and lived in a spiritual community (cheap rent, shared chores, like minded people). Guys would be interested but then they would see that I'm very independent and not co-dependent or clingy. I had a lot of interests and still do. I was immersed in those. Guys would move on. I didn't really care.
Along about age 28 I started thinking I wanted to be a mother. Yes, I did want to be married but more importantly I wanted to be a mother. I became co-dependent with an abusive, unloving husband.
Fast forward years later I was single again and I went back to my independent ways. Again, guys would get the impression I could take or leave a relationship. I just have my own interests, and every time I would get involved with a guy, I'd have to capitulate to his interests, his hobbies, his lifestyle. It never appealed to me. I've seen too many women give up their lives and become immersed in their relationship. Not a great thing.
I don't think guys really like a woman that is quite so independent. Maybe "inter"dependent but not too independent. They like women who are a bit more dependent.
I saw some advice on other threads about finding your joy, following your interests. The thing is, you can't do it too much or you won't be that good a candidate for a committed relationship unless the guy is a lot like you are and is in sync with your needs, meaning, he operates the same way you do and respects your need to maintain your interests, hobbies and lifestyle.
I do agree that it helps to be in sync and people can certainly move from one relationship to the next until that expectation is met. However, another approach to try is to be more flexible with hobbies or strict schedules where transitions are built-in between activities. Use this time to assess feelings, anticipate the needs of your partner, make your own needs known, and adjust expectations. I think skipping this part is less about independence and more about being inflexible. A man who expects his wife to drop her life for his is a man who can't picture his day not going as planned. That is very poor planning. Not wanting to be with a man like that is recognizing that you won't have a say in your future.
Yup! I'd sign up to come home to my wife who runs circles around me. Yep. Sounds awesome. Where do I sign up for this feminization???? And I'm SURE that woman would LOVE to be the alpha in the relationship. I'm sure she would be happy in public with her peers with her stumbling bumbling not up to par man. Sheesh.
I can say all my relationships have been a partnership of equals. My husband values my competence, and I value his.
We both have our areas. I am in charge of finances. We would be broke if he was, and he knows it.
__________________ ____________________________________________
My posts as a Mod will always be in red.
Be sure to review Terms of Service: TOS
And check this out: FAQ
Moderator: Relationships Forum / Hawaii Forum / Dogs / Pets / Current Events
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
