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Why does a woman have to "give up" her independence in order to be married? Why does it have to be an 'either/or' thing?
When people say they want to be both married and independent, what does that mean?
It seems obvious to me that when you are married, you are no longer truly "independent" whether you are a man or woman, whether you can financially support yourself or not, because "independent" implies that you do whatever you want and make whatever choices you like, without needing to take the other person into account. How does that work in a marriage? If you want to be that independent, maybe you should just be housemates.
Yes, there are various definitions and degrees of "independence." For me it meant and still means retaining my sense of identity, my interests, my hobbies and my activities to the extent that it doesn't infringe on or compromise the relationship.
The happiest couples I've known or seen are those who are each other's best friend, and they do everything together. Some have children, a lot of them don't. Taking separate vacations is good for some, not so good for others. Each couple has to define their idea of independence within their relationship.
I never meant it to mean that I'm totally independent and can do whatever I want while in a relationship. Relationships don't work that way (though for some selfish people, it does).
Exactly. Most of the anonymous PMs about what "fertility" means are proxies for young and hot, and scientifically not anything to do with actual fertility.
This is all bunk. I know tons of guys. I'm over 50. Loads of them married. You know what tops the lists? She is smart, fun, cool as bleep, she makes me laugh, smile, and I love her. Not this other junk.
Having been around message boards and chat fora long enough, references to "fertility" are not about how many eggs she has left in her ovaries - it's all about that hip-to-waist ratio. The so-called "science" behind this being that women with small waists and a curvy body indicate to Cronk that she is the right one to hit over the head with a club and drag into the nearest cave for some oongie-boongie.
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Originally Posted by MinivanDriver
Ironic since your name implies a detachment from reality. I know plenty of women who not only are/were serious breadwinners for their families but raised happy, well-adjusted, and accomplished children. Maybe you need to get out more.
Seriously. My parents worked full time. My brother and SIL did. Almost all my married with children friends have always worked full time. Kids turned out just fine. Better than fine, impressive really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DontH8Me
Having been around message boards and chat fora long enough, references to "fertility" are not about how many eggs she has left in her ovaries - it's all about that hip-to-waist ratio. The so-called "science" behind this being that women with small waists and a curvy body indicate to Cronk that she is the right one to hit over the head with a club and drag into the nearest cave for some oongie-boongie.
Cronk go boom boom.
Hey, us dudes are primal. Can't undo hundreds of thousands of years of evolution with a few brain cells, amirite? (sarcasm tag)
Exactly. Most of the anonymous PMs about what "fertility" means are proxies for young and hot, and scientifically not anything to do with actual fertility.
This is all bunk. I know tons of guys. I'm over 50. Loads of them married. You know what tops the lists? She is smart, fun, cool as bleep, she makes me laugh, smile, and I love her. Not this other junk.
Ummm, just because you don't understand the fertility thing, doesn't mean it's "junk." Yes, those things you mentioned are part of the list.
I was speaking scientifically and historically. You are only 50. I'm old enough to be your mother. Or rather, you are young enough to be my son. You weren't around for the 1950's, or around people who were adults in the 1950's looking to marry and procreate. What I'm saying is that there are vestiges of the "fertility" theory today. It involves men who are looking for a woman to procreate with.
Having been around message boards and chat fora long enough, references to "fertility" are not about how many eggs she has left in her ovaries - it's all about that hip-to-waist ratio. The so-called "science" behind this being that women with small waists and a curvy body indicate to Cronk that she is the right one to hit over the head with a club and drag into the nearest cave for some oongie-boongie.
But more scientifically hair and skin quality, secondary sex characteristics, as an indication of high hormonal level, ie. fertility.
Most young men are probably not looking for fertility, certainly not at first, but they certainly react on a biological level, as male of the species, to a young woman with high level hormones.
But more scientifically hair and skin quality, secondary sex characteristics, as an indication of high hormonal level, ie. fertility.
Most young men are probably not looking for fertility, certainly not at first, but they certainly react on a biological level, as male of the species, to a young woman with high level hormones.
Interesting article. I've always been envious of women who can wear their hair short. I look awful with short hair, hence I've always had long hair. Maybe that's why my friend's husband told me men think sex instead of wife when they see me. *shrug* Not cutting my hair. Last time it was short, Twiggy was uber famous.
When people say they want to be both married and independent, what does that mean?
It means for *me*, that I don't want to have to run EVERY decision I want to make, by my husband, before I make it. Being single NOW, if I want to brush my teeth NOW, I'm going to brush my teeth NOW. If I'm married, and I want to brush my teeth NOW, I'm not going to ask my husband for 'permission'...or his thoughts about me taking care of my own dental hygiene, at this point in our relationship! (Gee honey...I want to brush my teeth now. What are your thoughts about that? Is my decision o.k. with you? )
Quote:
It seems obvious to me that when you are married, you are no longer truly "independent" whether you are a man or woman, whether you can financially support yourself or not, because "independent" implies that you do whatever you want and make whatever choices you like, without needing to take the other person into account. How does that work in a marriage? If you want to be that independent, maybe you should just be housemates.
What does it mean to "take the other person into account?" (I'm asking because I have a point, but I don't want to bring the point up quite yet!)
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