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This. We also live in a modern man-hating culture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020
Since we're playing the generalization game, here's a theory. Women in post-feminist America have been socially conditioned to expect a lot out of the "contract" of marriage. When these material and non-material expectations are not met to a T, they feel as though they aren't getting their money's worth and press to hit the reset button. Men could feasibly feel the same, but why don't they with the same spedyness? The answer is: Time sensitive perceptions of worth.
Put simply, women have an underlying understanding that their age and body is their biggest marketing trait, their ultimate social worth in a fierce world that doesn't apologize nor is fair. Even in equal-participation-in-the-labor-market America they mentally favor these visceral qualities of "worth" and traditional gender roles [even when they reject that very traditionalism by their embrace of "point-making" via overt sexual promiscuity], thence staying in a relationship that is not providing the expected dividends is truly a bet they cannot afford. In essence, women are always in a bigger hurry to get nowhere, sociologically speaking.... In a hurry to have children, in a hurry to upgrade their lifestyle. In a hurry.... As such, they pull the pin with much more nonchalance than men. Granted, in many cases these relationships are broken and toxic, and bringing a speedy end to them can be healthy, but that's not a quality that is just reserved for women. Men can just as easily be stuck in relationships where the female is the emotional deserter and the input of toxicity.
The point seems to center around the underlying notion that women feel as though they have an expiration date that men seem to skate under. And statistically speaking, they're largely right. I was able to grab the attention of women much younger than me after my divorce while my exwife had to effectively accept the cost of gaining the attention of a man much older than her (ex and I are the same age) as 30 yo men don't want a 30 yo woman in aggregate, particularly when normalized for percentage of single mothers in that age bracket. This 'unfairness' is part of the reason they are so predisposed to be so privately disloyal to the very contract [state marriage] they push so hard on men with their vagina-leveraging.
Now, is that notion righteous? Of course not. But perception is reality. In the world of American women, where their moral compass is no longer their family, or even the male peer group, but rather their FEMALE PEER group, these irrational feelings of "expiration" make them approach the very marriage they push on men, with one foot always out the door. That's the mother of all dichotomies, not to mention a less than righteous character trait.
I guess if I was a woman and was told every day of my young life, by both word and example of my mothers and high school/college girlfriends with their body image keeping and victoria secret catalogs and cheer meets and 8-hour-a-day grooming, that my altitude in life is ultimately determined and a function of how well I manage the marketing and leveraging of my vagina (women are after all, the pace setters of sexual access and availability), I guess I'd be freggin' out every birthday of my 20s and 30s making sure my marriage is on track with the "checklist" prescribed for me by my peer women.
I raise a glass and toast: to the unintended consequences of feminism! Now I say that and b$tches ('cause these nutjobs are not 'women') come out with the pitchforks and accuse me of asserting I wish all women back in the kitchen. Nonsense. I just wish to declare that you all can't have it all...and you all are losing the game. Your vaginas are losing relevance in the equation of social stability. Marriage is no longer a requirement to have access to sex, or even children. Time to accept you can't have it all. If that means accepting more traditional gender roles for what you value more, then own it. It's not as if men are out there nilly willy living life without abandon or cost. We're still largely living a rougher life and employed in occupations that lower our life expectancy, where the residual wealth is eventually transferred to the surviving female peer. It is what it is. But I don't go out declaring life owes me anything in the realm of material expectations of relationships. And women failed miserably at recognizing that [that men never had it all to begin with, even back then] when they started demanding the world's head in a plate with the feminism mantra.
There's my 2 pesos. To each their own. Call me Taliban for wanting and recognizing that I need a woman who is accepting of a subordinate economic role (and is willing to sign a prenup to prove it) in order to be compatible with the vocational and personal circumstances of my life. I still think such model is capable of being equitable to both parts, even if in paper it's not 50 50. Since there is NO such thing as 50 50 in life anyways...
I am reading correctly the part where it says that more than 75% of the cases women are awarded custody regardless of who seeked or not, women get it MOST (if not all) of the time. That's just how it is.
So cheating women still get half of what was brought into the marriage, custody, alimony, investments, the house, etc. regardless of those women not contributing to the marriage (economically, sentimentally, to the hose keeping, etc.). Hey, if someone is going to get awarded for their bad conduct or simply if they get bored with the marriage nothing will hold them to get a divorce and move on.
I'm getting sucked into another one of these threads. Here is where your theories fall short and why you need to review those statistics and percentages of who gets more in a divorce as it equates to the reasons marriages fail.
...There are basic statistics out there suggesting that men cheat more than woman. One of the biggest reasons why men generally cheat on their spouse relates to sex. Quite commonly there is a sex problem within the relationship or the man just wants more or new sex. Whereas a woman generally cheats as a last resort when all her complaints are left unheard, as a last resort a woman may cheat, but it will generally be for emotional reasons rather than for sexual reasons.
If a man continues to show no respect for the woman, continues to ignore her, and gives her no emotional support, some woman may look elsewhere to have their emotional and physical needs fulfilled. A man, however, is generally a more simple being.
Who cheats more- men or women?
A total of 2306 women said they would. 136 more than women who said they wouldn't out of respect for their partners. Of course that number could change if the 2170 women suddenly felt disrespected by their partners. And women who said no because of their morality and respect, totaled 3981, that's 1673 over the ones who said they would cheat. That's comforting to know.
Then they asked Ladies, if their men have ever cheated on them?
16807 said no.
78930 said Yes, I caught him red handed.
And 51050 said I've suspected, but never caught him.
Continue reading on Examiner.com: Who cheats more, men or women - Washington DC infidelity | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/infidelity-in-washington-dc/who-cheats-more-men-or-women#ixzz1Khe9ngia - broken link) http://www.examiner.com/infidelity-in-washington-dc/who-cheats-more-men-or-women#ixzz1Khe9ngia (broken link)
The point seems to center around the underlying notion that women feel as though they have an expiration date that men seem to skate under. And statistically speaking, they're largely right. I was able to grab the attention of women much younger than me after my divorce while my exwife had to effectively accept the cost of gaining the attention of a man much older than her (ex and I are the same age) as 30 yo men don't want a 30 yo woman in aggregate, particularly when normalized for percentage of single mothers in that age bracket. This 'unfairness' is part of the reason they are so predisposed to be so privately disloyal to the very contract [state marriage] they push so hard on men with their vagina-leveraging.
QUOTE]
I disagree with most of what you wrote - it sounds bitter, frankly.
The bolded part I can explain to you though - women who divorce "young" (under 35) aren't all looking for someone younger, though it seems most men are. Women are typically looking for someone more mature than their last partner, especially if they married young. Men are just less mature than women, for their age, generally speaking.
After my divorce, I will not be "looking" at all - once is enough, thank you. But my standards will be MUCH HIGHER if I do give it another try. I believe all women feel this way. IMO - Men look for the outside package/superficial things exclusively in a second wife - which is why although 1st marriages have a 50/50 shot, a second marriage only has a 25% success rate, statistically speaking.
I will be seeking sole custody of my children - and I'm sure that as long as dh perceives the visitation to be generous, he won't fight me on that. Children are work -and I've been a sahm for 11 years, so I know. The best learning experience for my husband was the 1 1/2 weeks I was in the hospital earlier this year. He struggled to keep it all together - not working at the time as our business had fallen apart already and he hadn't found a new job yet. He couldn't do it. Some men like to say sahms don't "do anything" and that they can handle it all in 2-3 hours a week. My husband makes claims like that sometimes too when he's yelling at me - but I just smile. Because we both know the truth of that (as do our friends, our family, the neighbors and the children's teachers)
Stop calling us men lazy. Our entire marriage, I have gone to work for a minimum of 8 hours a day to ensure we could pay for our lives. When I got home, I took over kid duty for four kids. My wife has worked part time, and barely full time, and been a stay at home mom. Most men I know work longer hours than their wives to ensure that they have the money that they feel like their family needs.
She shows me no respect, has cheated on me, is working on finding a new man to play with while she separates from me, and stands to be financially better off than I am in the event of a divorce.
Her complaints come down to. I didn't do the laundry, help with the kids in the morning, or do enough housework. I didn't go to bed at the same time she did ( I have been a night owl )
I do laundry now, that was legit.
I didn't help in the morning, and she didn't help at night. I now get the kids up in the morning and get breakfast going while she sleeps, and do all the night time duties.
If something was cleaned in our house other than the kitchen ( we both did this ), it was cleaned by me or the housekeeper she hired even when she was a stay at home mom.
If there was a home cooked meal that was completely cooked in a carton in the microwave it has been cooked by me nearly all of the time.
I started going to bed at the same time as her, and she started sleeping upstairs, then she started coming to bed with me, and now waits until I am in bed, so she can text her divorced friends and wannabe boyfriend.
The end result of me answering her FINALLY direct complaints with action was she decided to run farther away. The generic complaints made me feel like I was doing something wrong, but I couldn't fix it. Then there was the fear it wouldn't make a difference, and then I decided that even though she would cut me off and never hear my complaints that I was going to do something. Her response was to run farther away. The conclusion I came to is that God created marriage to shape us. We are called not to be served, but to serve. When both partners do this, then marriage is a beautiful thing, but I was not excused from my half of the responsibility because she didn't do her half. I was not merely answerable to her or myself, I was answerable to the God who created marriage.
I put up with this because:
a) I made a commitment before God, my church, my family, my friends, and to her that I would stick out marriage even when it was bad. I could have left in good conscious when she cheated, but I chose to stay.
b) I have four kids that I don't want to reduce any amount of time I have with them.
c) I have four kids, so the odds of not seeing her nearly as much as I already do is pretty slim, so it makes sense to work things out.
d) I love her, even when I am bad at showing it.
I think women have been sold a bill of goods about happiness. The vows I took didn't promise happiness. They promised commitment. Men value commitment. We are raised by society to value commitment, and God built us to value commitment. The vows basically said that even if it misserable I will stay by you, and that is what I intend to do. She can file for divorce, and we can reach divorce, but I will have no part in initiating a divorce. I won't passively let it happen, but until divorce is started I will work on having the marriage we promised each other, even through our time of separation.
Happiness is fleeting. I know very many people who regret divorce. My uncle who is happily married to his third wife regrets both of his divorces. I know of no one in my life who regrets sticking to their marriage vows and persevering through the hard stuff. They all became closer and have a marriage they didn't dream of. Its the hard stuff that shapes us, that makes us better. When we fail to make through the hard stuff, we stay the same. Its the hard stuff when we look back at life that bonds people together. The good times are better after the hard stuff. The good times don't provide a permanent bond.
Marriage is a risky venture for men. We stand to lose financially in divorce and marriage. I use my salary to pay for the care and feeding of 6 people. I could have so much more if I were single, and earning what I earn. In divorce, I stand to lose at least a third of my income. Yes I will be financially better off in the long run than I was in marriage, but that isn't why I got married.
In the modern world, marriage is not a risky venture for women. They typically stand to gain financially either in marriage or in divorce. They no longer need the physical protection that having a husband provides. The state has displaced this role of husbands, or at least they provided the same comfort of doing so. Men in our culture rarely are threatening to women, so the risks of marrying a physically dangerous man are significantly less than they used to be. Not non-existent, but very low.
I will see if my wife decides to make our marriage work, but even if she doesn't, I will know that for at least the last years of our marriage, I was not complacent. I believe a lot of men become frozen in the constant lack of contentment of their wives, and don't know what to do. Wives think carefully about whether it is what your husband is doing or not doing or if it is that you are choosing not to love him. Love is not just a feeling. The feeling will follow action. When I chose to invest with the actions listed above, then my feelings of love grew for her.
Stop calling us men lazy. Our entire marriage, I have gone to work for a minimum of 8 hours a day to ensure we could pay for our lives. When I got home, I took over kid duty for four kids. My wife has worked part time, and barely full time, and been a stay at home mom. Most men I know work longer hours than their wives to ensure that they have the money that they feel like their family needs.
She shows me no respect, has cheated on me, is working on finding a new man to play with while she separates from me, and stands to be financially better off than I am in the event of a divorce.
Her complaints come down to. I didn't do the laundry, help with the kids in the morning, or do enough housework. I didn't go to bed at the same time she did ( I have been a night owl )
I do laundry now, that was legit.
I didn't help in the morning, and she didn't help at night. I now get the kids up in the morning and get breakfast going while she sleeps, and do all the night time duties.
If something was cleaned in our house other than the kitchen ( we both did this ), it was cleaned by me or the housekeeper she hired even when she was a stay at home mom.
If there was a home cooked meal that was completely cooked in a carton in the microwave it has been cooked by me nearly all of the time.
I started going to bed at the same time as her, and she started sleeping upstairs, then she started coming to bed with me, and now waits until I am in bed, so she can text her divorced friends and wannabe boyfriend.
The end result of me answering her FINALLY direct complaints with action was she decided to run farther away. The generic complaints made me feel like I was doing something wrong, but I couldn't fix it. Then there was the fear it wouldn't make a difference, and then I decided that even though she would cut me off and never hear my complaints that I was going to do something. Her response was to run farther away. The conclusion I came to is that God created marriage to shape us. We are called not to be served, but to serve. When both partners do this, then marriage is a beautiful thing, but I was not excused from my half of the responsibility because she didn't do her half. I was not merely answerable to her or myself, I was answerable to the God who created marriage.
I put up with this because:
a) I made a commitment before God, my church, my family, my friends, and to her that I would stick out marriage even when it was bad. I could have left in good conscious when she cheated, but I chose to stay.
b) I have four kids that I don't want to reduce any amount of time I have with them.
c) I have four kids, so the odds of not seeing her nearly as much as I already do is pretty slim, so it makes sense to work things out.
d) I love her, even when I am bad at showing it.
I think women have been sold a bill of goods about happiness. The vows I took didn't promise happiness. They promised commitment. Men value commitment. We are raised by society to value commitment, and God built us to value commitment. The vows basically said that even if it misserable I will stay by you, and that is what I intend to do. She can file for divorce, and we can reach divorce, but I will have no part in initiating a divorce. I won't passively let it happen, but until divorce is started I will work on having the marriage we promised each other, even through our time of separation.
Happiness is fleeting. I know very many people who regret divorce. My uncle who is happily married to his third wife regrets both of his divorces. I know of no one in my life who regrets sticking to their marriage vows and persevering through the hard stuff. They all became closer and have a marriage they didn't dream of. Its the hard stuff that shapes us, that makes us better. When we fail to make through the hard stuff, we stay the same. Its the hard stuff when we look back at life that bonds people together. The good times are better after the hard stuff. The good times don't provide a permanent bond.
Marriage is a risky venture for men. We stand to lose financially in divorce and marriage. I use my salary to pay for the care and feeding of 6 people. I could have so much more if I were single, and earning what I earn. In divorce, I stand to lose at least a third of my income. Yes I will be financially better off in the long run than I was in marriage, but that isn't why I got married.
In the modern world, marriage is not a risky venture for women. They typically stand to gain financially either in marriage or in divorce. They no longer need the physical protection that having a husband provides. The state has displaced this role of husbands, or at least they provided the same comfort of doing so. Men in our culture rarely are threatening to women, so the risks of marrying a physically dangerous man are significantly less than they used to be. Not non-existent, but very low.
I will see if my wife decides to make our marriage work, but even if she doesn't, I will know that for at least the last years of our marriage, I was not complacent. I believe a lot of men become frozen in the constant lack of contentment of their wives, and don't know what to do. Wives think carefully about whether it is what your husband is doing or not doing or if it is that you are choosing not to love him. Love is not just a feeling. The feeling will follow action. When I chose to invest with the actions listed above, then my feelings of love grew for her.
Very well said, and I can't argue with any of your points. Great post.
Stop calling us men lazy. Our entire marriage, I have gone to work for a minimum of 8 hours a day to ensure we could pay for our lives. When I got home, I took over kid duty for four kids. My wife has worked part time, and barely full time, and been a stay at home mom. Most men I know work longer hours than their wives to ensure that they have the money that they feel like their family needs.
She shows me no respect, has cheated on me, is working on finding a new man to play with while she separates from me, and stands to be financially better off than I am in the event of a divorce.
Her complaints come down to. I didn't do the laundry, help with the kids in the morning, or do enough housework. I didn't go to bed at the same time she did ( I have been a night owl )
I do laundry now, that was legit.
I didn't help in the morning, and she didn't help at night. I now get the kids up in the morning and get breakfast going while she sleeps, and do all the night time duties.
If something was cleaned in our house other than the kitchen ( we both did this ), it was cleaned by me or the housekeeper she hired even when she was a stay at home mom.
If there was a home cooked meal that was completely cooked in a carton in the microwave it has been cooked by me nearly all of the time.
I started going to bed at the same time as her, and she started sleeping upstairs, then she started coming to bed with me, and now waits until I am in bed, so she can text her divorced friends and wannabe boyfriend.
The end result of me answering her FINALLY direct complaints with action was she decided to run farther away. The generic complaints made me feel like I was doing something wrong, but I couldn't fix it. Then there was the fear it wouldn't make a difference, and then I decided that even though she would cut me off and never hear my complaints that I was going to do something. Her response was to run farther away. The conclusion I came to is that God created marriage to shape us. We are called not to be served, but to serve. When both partners do this, then marriage is a beautiful thing, but I was not excused from my half of the responsibility because she didn't do her half. I was not merely answerable to her or myself, I was answerable to the God who created marriage.
I put up with this because:
a) I made a commitment before God, my church, my family, my friends, and to her that I would stick out marriage even when it was bad. I could have left in good conscious when she cheated, but I chose to stay.
b) I have four kids that I don't want to reduce any amount of time I have with them.
c) I have four kids, so the odds of not seeing her nearly as much as I already do is pretty slim, so it makes sense to work things out.
d) I love her, even when I am bad at showing it.
I think women have been sold a bill of goods about happiness. The vows I took didn't promise happiness. They promised commitment. Men value commitment. We are raised by society to value commitment, and God built us to value commitment. The vows basically said that even if it misserable I will stay by you, and that is what I intend to do. She can file for divorce, and we can reach divorce, but I will have no part in initiating a divorce. I won't passively let it happen, but until divorce is started I will work on having the marriage we promised each other, even through our time of separation.
Happiness is fleeting. I know very many people who regret divorce. My uncle who is happily married to his third wife regrets both of his divorces. I know of no one in my life who regrets sticking to their marriage vows and persevering through the hard stuff. They all became closer and have a marriage they didn't dream of. Its the hard stuff that shapes us, that makes us better. When we fail to make through the hard stuff, we stay the same. Its the hard stuff when we look back at life that bonds people together. The good times are better after the hard stuff. The good times don't provide a permanent bond.
Marriage is a risky venture for men. We stand to lose financially in divorce and marriage. I use my salary to pay for the care and feeding of 6 people. I could have so much more if I were single, and earning what I earn. In divorce, I stand to lose at least a third of my income. Yes I will be financially better off in the long run than I was in marriage, but that isn't why I got married.
In the modern world, marriage is not a risky venture for women. They typically stand to gain financially either in marriage or in divorce. They no longer need the physical protection that having a husband provides. The state has displaced this role of husbands, or at least they provided the same comfort of doing so. Men in our culture rarely are threatening to women, so the risks of marrying a physically dangerous man are significantly less than they used to be. Not non-existent, but very low.
I will see if my wife decides to make our marriage work, but even if she doesn't, I will know that for at least the last years of our marriage, I was not complacent. I believe a lot of men become frozen in the constant lack of contentment of their wives, and don't know what to do. Wives think carefully about whether it is what your husband is doing or not doing or if it is that you are choosing not to love him. Love is not just a feeling. The feeling will follow action. When I chose to invest with the actions listed above, then my feelings of love grew for her.
OK..she's cheated on you? and yet you put up with it because she's your wife? wow...
I think the article posted regarding child custody was dead-on. A lot of men, even if they want out, will not file because they believe they can't win custody of their children. Whether they are correct in this belief or not, that belief holds them back. Where as women believe the opposite - that they will be more-or-less guaranteed custody. I'm not saying that's always the case, but I believe it is often the case.
I've changed my mind on a lot of things since joining city data, but I stand by this statement.
IMO the #1 reason more women file for divorce is because they are less frightened of losing their relationship with their children.
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Women, seriously
