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Come on now. It has been like this since time immemorial. Name a time in history that women haven't been taking care of husband and kids. And yet, up until maybe 30 - 40 years ago, it didn't mean the lady of the house wound up weighing 300 lbs.
So what changed? Here's a radical idea: it's because women's lives have gotten EASIER, not harder. Our grandmas cooked every meal from scratch (loaded with full-fat milk, butter, and fatty meats), and often carried the groceries home. Our grandmas did not have dishwashers, microwaves, and the drive-through Wendy's. Our grandmas "deep cleaned" all right, did loads of ironing, polished everyone's shoes, and did a lot of household chores that most of us no longer do (hang the wash on the line? When was the last time you did that?)
Another thing -- most women in those days did not have their own cars (the minivan like a rolling living room didn't exist). They walked down to the corner store. Kids rode bikes or walked.
Also, my grandma, like many women, worked. She was a schoolteacher during the Depression years with small children at home and a husband gone for one job or another most of the time. She did not weigh 300 lbs., she wore a dress, pearls, a hat, gloves and a fancy pocketbook, like most women of her era.
Never mind my grandma -- I did all those things you did when raising kids (and more, since their dad was hardly ever around), and my weight is and was in the 110 - 117 range. Gained a bunch of pregnancy weight and then lost it.
I don't think its fair to blame husband and kids, because you are "too busy to think about what you need". Be honest, sometimes "what you need" is to super-size the fries when going through the drive-through, because really, the problem in this culture is instant gratification and everything actually being too easy.
One massive flaw with your entire post.
The time you're referring to most women stayed at home, did they not? They weren't working a full time job outside the home as well as doing everything else all those women did.
Easier? LOL sure we have more gadgets and things that are supposed to help, but we're also under more stress, have more activities and more demands for our time.
I'm not blaming the husband and kids, I'm simply pointing out that for a lot of women we end up putting everyone else first and end up forgetting ourselves. And a lot of us do not eat fast food.
Your inability to even understand or empathize with women who lose themselves because they are so consumed with taking care of their families is disappointing. And most of them don't end up weighing 300 lbs either. Let's be realistic, for most of us we gain a few pounds, we don't double in weight.
Come on now. It has been like this since time immemorial. Name a time in history that women haven't been taking care of husband and kids. And yet, up until maybe 30 - 40 years ago, it didn't mean the lady of the house wound up weighing 300 lbs.
So what changed? Here's a radical idea: it's because women's lives have gotten EASIER, not harder. Our grandmas cooked every meal from scratch (loaded with full-fat milk, butter, and fatty meats), and often carried the groceries home. Our grandmas did not have dishwashers, microwaves, and the drive-through Wendy's. Our grandmas "deep cleaned" all right, did loads of ironing, polished everyone's shoes, and did a lot of household chores that most of us no longer do (hang the wash on the line? When was the last time you did that?)
Another thing -- most women in those days did not have their own cars (the minivan like a rolling living room didn't exist). They walked down to the corner store. Kids rode bikes or walked.
Also, my grandma, like many women, worked. She was a schoolteacher during the Depression years with small children at home and a husband gone for one job or another most of the time. She did not weigh 300 lbs., she wore a dress, pearls, a hat, gloves and a fancy pocketbook, like most women of her era.
Never mind my grandma -- I did all those things you did when raising kids (and more, since their dad was hardly ever around), and my weight is and was in the 110 - 117 range. Gained a bunch of pregnancy weight and then lost it.
I don't think its fair to blame husband and kids, because you are "too busy to think about what you need". Be honest, sometimes "what you need" is to super-size the fries when going through the drive-through, because really, the problem in this culture is instant gratification and everything actually being too easy.
1. My parents were of the Depression era. No one was obese because there was nothing to eat. Then, when the U.S. got involved in WWII, their food was rationed.
2. Food was entirely different then. You aim your comments solely at women, but the things you mention are what have made MEN fat, too: fast food, less physical activity. Trying to rebut a gender-specific argument with a general argument is interesting, but not applicable.
3. Research over the last few years has revealed that severe physical and psychological stress--such as wartime and famine--suffered by one generation may have an [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics"]epigenetic[/URL] effect on the obesity risk in future generations, especially in females. It's a growing field, and they are finding that if Grandma or Mom suffered deprivation or horror, several biochemical reactions happen that set her offspring up for obesity later in life. (You'll find all you need in the references of [URL="http://www.benthamscience.com/open/toobesj/articles/V003/SI0001TOOBESJ/27TOOBESJ.pdf"]this study[/URL], the link to which will take you directly to a PDF.) So if Grandma was underweight during her first trimester, you just might get fat when you're older through no fault of your own.
4. Many grandmas smoked like chimneys. Many smoked while they were pregnant, to boot, which has been shown to affect obesity and cardiovascular risk in future generations.
5. Our grandmas wore girdles and lived in discomfort that prevented them from eating. Do you suggest we go back to that?
6. What was considered normal even 50 years ago is considered "fat" now by our media and the resident self-righteous on this board. Marilyn Monroe was a shade over 5'5" and 140 pounds. OMG, horrors! A woman who weighs more than 125 pounds and isn't six feet tall! WHAT A LARD-ARSE!
The time you're referring to most women stayed at home, did they not? They weren't working a full time job outside the home as well as doing everything else all those women did.
Easier? LOL sure we have more gadgets and things that are supposed to help, but we're also under more stress, have more activities and more demands for our time.
I'm not blaming the husband and kids, I'm simply pointing out that for a lot of women we end up putting everyone else first and end up forgetting ourselves. And a lot of us do not eat fast food.
Your inability to even understand or empathize with women who lose themselves because they are so consumed with taking care of their families is disappointing. And most of them don't end up weighing 300 lbs either. Let's be realistic, for most of us we gain a few pounds, we don't double in weight.
Please reread my post that you quoted, and note in the 4th paragraph I said:
Also, my grandma, like many women, worked. She was a schoolteacher during the Depression years with small children at home and a husband gone for one job or another most of the time. She did not weigh 300 lbs., she wore a dress, pearls, a hat, gloves and a fancy pocketbook, like most women of her era.
My grandmother worked full-time, and was a single parent most of the time. Same with me. And I've always been in the 110-117 lb. range (except pregnancies).
I was completely "consumed with taking care of my family", as was my grandma, and the vast majority of females up until around 30-40 years ago were within the normal weight range. Why?
You are looking for a loophole, a "flaw in my argument", because this is what people who like to blame others for their own problems do. People who get fat because they "don't have time to take care of themselves" many times are giving themselves little treats all day long -- come on, you know that's true. They finish their kids' dinners, after they eat their own dinner. They pile their plates up the same amount as their husbands (despite being much smaller in body type). When making their kids' lunches, they open a snack bag of doritos for themselves. They eat raw dough, and test the dinner all the way through.
It's interesting to watch "The Biggest Loser", last week a former Olympic athlete who gained like 200 lbs. got busted by Jillian for not losing weight. With a completely straight face and looking her in the eye, he said he couldn't imagine why he wasn't losing 10 lbs. a week. Jillian pointed out that there are cameras in every room -- and in the middle of the night, that guy was hoovering giant bags of Doritos and had drawerfuls of candy. People are masters of self-deception, it's as simple as that.
The time you're referring to most women stayed at home, did they not? They weren't working a full time job outside the home as well as doing everything else all those women did.
Easier? LOL sure we have more gadgets and things that are supposed to help, but we're also under more stress, have more activities and more demands for our time.
I'm not blaming the husband and kids, I'm simply pointing out that for a lot of women we end up putting everyone else first and end up forgetting ourselves. And a lot of us do not eat fast food.
Your inability to even understand or empathize with women who lose themselves because they are so consumed with taking care of their families is disappointing. And most of them don't end up weighing 300 lbs either. Let's be realistic, for most of us we gain a few pounds, we don't double in weight.
Stop! You're making too much sense!
But your post adds something else to the equation: Sleep deprivation. Grandma got 9 or 10 hours of sleep a night. Modern mothers are lucky if they get 7.
Well, chronic sleep deprivation interferes with the release of certain hormones that help maintain metabolism. [URL="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/07/060713081140.htm"]Presto![/URL] Weight gain!
That's not gender-specific, by the way. However, if Bird is seeking to compare previous generations with this one, there's one more factor to consider.
Technology is part of that: Grandma wasn't staring into a computer screen until midnight every night so that her body thought it was daytime and couldn't wind down until 2:00 a.m.
It's interesting to watch "The Biggest Loser", last week a former Olympic athlete who gained like 200 lbs. got busted by Jillian for not losing weight. With a completely straight face and looking her in the eye, he said he couldn't imagine why he wasn't losing 10 lbs. a week. Jillian pointed out that there are cameras in every room -- and in the middle of the night, that guy was hoovering giant bags of Doritos and had drawerfuls of candy. People are masters of self-deception, it's as simple as that.
Ten pounds a week is neither healthy nor permanent. If you're using "The Biggest Loser" for your weight-loss arguments, I'd have to call that irresponsible.
Well, if there is one thing I have learned from this thread - it's that there is a strong prejudice towards overweight people. I'm not sure why this is. We all have our flaws and we all have our weaknesses but somehow - so many feel comfortable looking at people bigger than they are and saying - "They are lazy, selfish, and disgusting!" Does it make you feel better about yourselves to say such things?
Also - we all have different metabolisms. I have a friend that was 6 feet tall that ate anything she wanted and never gained a pound. She weighed about 130 pounds or so - and when she got depressed, she lost weight. She constantly ate Taco Bell and Pizza Hut - and looked practically anorexic. She had to work at gaining weight. Her whole family was the same way. And then I have friends that have always been big - and they eat well and exercise - and will just never be as small as me. I've lived with people like this so I truly know their eating habits and exercise habits. We all have different shapes and sizes. And some people can eat whatever they want until their 30's - and then everything catches up with them. My father weight 135 pounds at 6'2" until he hit his 30's or 40's. He was actully embarassed by how skinny he was when he was younger. He was always hungry and ate everything in sight - and would wear 2 pairs of jeans to make him look like he wasn't so scrawny. Well, it did catch up to him! He was never obese - but he had a definite spare tire! And guess what - my mom DIDN'T divorce him! She STILL loved him!!! Wow!!!
For all of you that feel that your love for your spouse or future spouse (as in most cases) is dependent on their weighing exactly what they did on their wedding day for the rest of their entire lives - I hope you have or that you find what you are looking for - and I hope you let them know up front that your love is contingent upon their not changing their size... ever!
As for me - I've battled an eating disorder my entire life and my weight has fluctuated a good 30 pounds or so over the years. The people I have been with have always loved me no matter what my size was - although I think they mostly preferred me at my heavier end than at my bonier end. I'm lucky to be very curvy - so even when I'm really underweight, I still have lots of curves. Maybe because I've always felt that I was obese, even when I was very underweight - I just can't look at overweight people and blame them or hate them as so many on here seem to. I know what it's like to hate your body - I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Also - many obese people are severely depressed and filled with self loathing. The change that needs to happen needs to come from within - and putting these people down only makes the problem worse. Also - many obese people suffer from an eating disorder - just as I suffer from one, it's just a different one than my own. I know what a battle eating has been for me - and I feel for everyone that has eating issues - whether it's that you are afraid of food or that you overeat to fill a hole inside of you. Learning to be okay with my body has been the hardest thing for me - and I will never put someone down because of how big they are. And if I thought my marriage was dependent on my weight - I would never have gotten married. I'm already so afriad of gaining to much weight - if I thought my marrriage depended on that - I would be living in constant fear. I'm lucky - my husband loves me for who I am - and he lets me know that he thinks I'm beautiful now and that he always will think so.
Or are you saying that inside they were always a fat person just screaming to get out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by justthe6ofus
What are the warning signs for that before marriage? I'm sure you could help a lot of folks here on this thread with your knowledge.
I still maintain my position that the weight issue in a relationship is just a personal choice between two people, however - yes, there are warning signs although I think of them as behavioral signs.
For example, if you are dating a slim woman, do you take notice to what her real attitude is about food? Is she dieting constantly because you are in the infatuation/tumbling-in-love stage of the relationship? More importantly, what is her attitude towards healthful living? If she's slim yet doesn't seem to care much about the quality of food she ingests (i.e. a lot of diet soda which is corrosive to the system, or high carb or processed food) it's almost a certainty that after you are married and things "relax" that type of eating will be part of her lifestyle. Exercise too. Does she think exercise is an important, vital part of life? Even little things like driving around the mall for minutes to get a closer parking spot because she doesn't want to walk a few extra steps (remember, this is the thin version here.)
Same can be said for any behavior prior to marriage. That guy you just started dating can be charming and witty after knocking back 5 scotch-on-the-rocks at dinner during your first months of dating, but get a realistic crystal ball and see that it can become a problem. 5, 10 years down the road he may be knocking back those scotches while sitting in front of the TV and become belligerent and abusive.
Another poster correctly stated that "a leopard doesn't change it's spots" and the reason that saying holds truth is because for a person to change his "spots", he must first see them clearly and make a conscientious change, if indeed they need changing. Most people either don't see their spots as a flaw, or can successfuly hide them on a need-be basis.
Dating someone for a reasonable amount of time is very important. I'm not suggesting to date with a critical eye or to look for faults, heavens no you'll be alone for the rest of your life, but it is the time to make assessments about compatibility, priorities in your love-interest's life, and find out how they truly think or behave about important issues.
So often the impurities of boiling blubber float to the top with accusations of narcissism and "not skinny like a twig" style comments. Love of cookies is like that, as it is with any other addictive substance.
With the following, I take aim at the fat denial movement, not those humble peoples who are merely fat and know its consequences:
With so much muffin, there is so much wheat straw for straw men tall enough they catch lightening that may strike down the masses into life styles of sloth and indulgence. As in the vast majority of cases, we are speaking of willful sloth and overindulgence, not acts of a corpulent god - Let us stand for a moment of silence in remembrance of those crushed under a crate of Twinkies - Yeah, we know about natural aging.
This is a secrete to no one, including its victims, who are famous for utilizing their plate cleaning skills by selling the scavenged remains of their appearance with a FGAS.
Most of the posters here, as is obvious in any format that is not anonymous, are not speaking in defense of others. I will coin it as - Fictitious Third Person Argument - People who like to go easy on drunks are drunks themselves.
Fat people would like other people to settle for fat people.
I can forgive any human frailty but lies. Taking away an attractive quality from a partner, acting as if it is of no consequence, and then if necessary, extorting them with guilt or legal action is just another dish that serves one. Cookie first love is like that.
If you plan on crushing your flute under a calf's foot soon after , don't seduce them with how you play. A nice addition to your profile would be "I plan on being full figured". So lets all agree that profiles should replace FGAS with a PFDS (Projected Fat Disclosure Statement). So as long as you are both happy, everyone is happy.
Yet between couples, the argument of an unnecessary augmentation of titillation is quite defunct. The *** is up. Fat makes you stupid, slow, hobbled, prematurely aged, and nearer to knee grinding death. Many of these same people would waddle and wheeze to a body shop over a chip of paint on their status display carriage. Its just about the rust. Sure it is...
Most of the posters here, as is obvious in any format that is not anonymous, are not speaking in defense of others. I will coin it as - Fictitious Third Person Argument
Or maybe they've seen family and friends struggle with their weight. Or maybe they're clinicians. Or maybe they write about obesity and weight-loss for a living.
The problem with this thread is that there are too many drill sergeants and not enough Richard Simmonses, too much self-righteousness and not enough compassion.
It's unproductive, because it's not going to affect overweight people, other than to show them who is a judgmental windbag.
Recently many of my friends(some old some new) seem to be getting divorces. It seems that the lack of sex appears to be a big issue and a factor in the divorce. Three of four that are open about it say it is because the spouse got really fat and it became a turn off. Two guys and one girl asked me if they thought they were wrong for not wanting to be intimate with someone that heavy. I really didn't have an answer, thoughts?
How big is too big before you lose interest? 20 lb, 40 lb? Doesn't matter? Would you be considered shallow if your Spouse gained 100 lbs and you didn't want to indulge?
I think 100 lbs is a whole lot of depth.
I recently gained about 20 lbs after having a surgery that rendered me out of the gym for 3 months. My female friends who i told about the 20 lbs about 2 days ago both said "NO WAY!!!" none of them could spot the gain. (I need to be shirtless to see it) so 20 lbs is not gonna look like a whole lot on some.
For me the 20 lbs is not something big, i packed it on in 3 months, it'll be gone again in another 3 months... done it before, no biggie. But then again you can still see the upper 4 of the used-to-be sixpack.
100 lbs on the other hand? Especially if it's a short person like people who are less than 6', they'll look like meatballs.
A lot of people find dateless people pathetic, and yeah it kinda is, I'll admit that. But for me it's so much more pathetic to not be able to control your weight. Bodymass is there for reasons that are easily understood through the mechanisms of metabolism. It's pretty much a hard science; eat good stuff in good ammounts, and work out and you'll get where you want. just make sure you have everything the body needs, and then stimulate it to go the desired way.
I don't get why people find it OK to rant people up for lacking social skills, while it's not OK to rant em up for engrosing themselves to the state of a halfdead elephant-cadaver
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