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Old 11-21-2012, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 4,599,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallisdj View Post
The so-called Christian Bible holds an interesting story of how it came about. It is unfortunate that the beginning of the story is pinpointed with the Nicene Councils, when the actual beginnings go back much further in time.

There are inconsistencies in the New Testament, at least according to a few folks (groups, perhaps) who have a lot of time on their hands to collect and display these inconsistencies.

It is these inconsistencies that help tell the tale of those turbulent days when the followers of the Christ philosophy banded together and "slogged" out all efforts to exterminate them.

Much of Paul's writing, since he is given credit for most of the content of the New Testament, is situational. Most of the inconsistencies, then, are accredited to Paul's letters. What these inconsistencies really show, however, is the different political climes and attitudes of people, the local government, and the state had towards this new "Jewish" religion.

Come two thousand years hence, however, and much of the angst of the first hundred years of the new "Jewish" movement has been "lost" or forgotten, buried under a ton of dogma cement as well as a fundamental shift of the Christ philosophy in the opposite direction.

One would be better off, in my opinion, to study the words reportedly taught by Rabbi Jesus (Jeshua) and giving Paul a fairly wide berth. Not to ignore the letters collected and deemed more politically correct to the formula and creed passed by the Nicene councils in the late 4th Century, but to gain, perhaps, an understanding of just how chaotic the very foundations of a religion were. The "Christian Church" did not grow up to maturity overnight. Two major sects grew very powerful (one western, the other eastern) that involved itself with the two Roman empires (one western, the other eastern) until Emperor Theodosius finally declared that Jesus was God and allowed the Rome-based bishop license to wipe out all other "Christian" sects. It is within this secular environment that we should form an opinion of the New Testament in addition to whatever spiritual beliefs we wish to attach to it.

Well I certainly agree with you; times have certainly changed, as well as religious traditions and doctrines. In my view, God will start a movement in the comming future that will not be Jewish or Christian, but the focus will be on him and Jesus, not the groups of men.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:26 AM
 
19,942 posts, read 17,230,802 times
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Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
One of the more perculiar verses in scripture I have encountered is John 9:39, where Jesus himself states;" For judgement I came into this world, that those who do not see may see; and that those who see may become blind."

An interesting thing for Jesus to say in my view; one of those " Loaded statements." Seemingly contridiction, he says he will give sight and take it away; perhaps meaning moreso " Understanding of spiritual things"-- Maybe? But if he meant spiritual understanding, then that would mean he will take away spiritual understanding from people? If so, why? And then give spiritual understanding to others who don't have it. So that is a curious thing to consider.

If he didnot mean spiritual understanding, then what did he mean? Because if it has something to do with judgement, then why judge people who you have blinded?

The Pharisee who heard him say this were just as confused in verse 40; they asked Jesus were they blind too?

In 41 Jesus responds;" If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say we see, your sin remains."

Did he mean that those who see, see sin? And that he came to blind people, meaning to take away their sins? But if it meant that it would also mean that those who didnot see sin, he would open their eyes to it?

One of the more curious things I have read from Jesus.
Not everyone will be saved. Those that are, are chosen by God. That's why.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 4,599,535 times
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Not everyone will be saved. Those that are, are chosen by God. That's why.

I disagree; I believe humans were created to live, and to live forever with God, and all humans have this destiny. I do not believe Gods calling is partial or limited to only " Certain humans who qualify;" I think his expressed will is that all humans be called and chosen, each in his own time frame. The vision of God is not limited to any kind of reasoning that could even possibly " Exclude" anyone for any reason. In fact I believe the core reason Jesus was sent to earth was to save ALL of humanity, with nobody left out at all.

I see this as the true gospel of salvation that the bible terms as " Free."
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 4,599,535 times
Reputation: 192
I truly don't understand why so many believers seem to think God would allow ANY human to suffer for an eternity; and that be called Love?
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Old 11-27-2012, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 4,599,535 times
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Its painfully obvious that Jesus has closed the understanding of many who even believe in him; look at how many believers in Jesus actually believe that he cannot save all of humanity. They are that blind because Jesus blinded them.
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