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One of the more perculiar verses in scripture I have encountered is John 9:39, where Jesus himself states;" For judgement I came into this world, that those who do not see may see; and that those who see may become blind."
Those who see, but do not do..are blind...those who do not see, through the blind shall see....for what is left undone (disrepair), will be glaringly obvious to those seeing everything.
An interesting thing for Jesus to say in my view; one of those " Loaded statements." Seemingly contridiction, he says he will give sight and take it away; perhaps meaning moreso " Understanding of spiritual things"-- Maybe? But if he meant spiritual understanding, then that would mean he will take away spiritual understanding from people? If so, why? And then give spiritual understanding to others who don't have it. So that is a curious thing to consider.
Could be as you say...but how does everyone come to know God?...well we have those who believe, but may or may not do as God has said...and those who do not know, nor do...and those coming into the world now...can see where the inheriant errors are...and if they fix those errors...well because the others who say they believe but did not do, and those who knew but stopped themselves and others for doing...the error grows as time goes on...and it worsens...so those who are blind learn and hopefully stop those who are ruining the planet...and take God's word as it is...it is all good when taken with thanksgiving.....ALL means ALL...and if we come to respect them all..in all respect will be granted....in all for all who do all.....so the statement made resounds as "Those who do the will of my Father, shall enter Paradise" becomes a reality...only by those who listen and do.
If he didnot mean spiritual understanding, then what did he mean? Because if it has something to do with judgement, then why judge people who you have blinded?
Scope out and underline the words God spoke...Not the others in the Bible...for it is from this we extract what Jesus was talking about...the word and will of God..not moses, not noah, nor any other writer unless God spoke to them or through them....So when you get all that is of God sorted out...what is the very first instruction God asks Adam and Eve to do?...before the fall from grace....and it only has to be that simple...If something was taken without permission...put it back in reverse order as to the way it was taken.....reversal...restoration..these are in the Bible....and are sound practice..when done sinlessly....that is the key.
The Pharisee who heard him say this were just as confused in verse 40; they asked Jesus were they blind too?
In 41 Jesus responds;" If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say we see, your sin remains."
Seeing might mean understanding...again seek the word of God, and Christ..who leads to the doing or fulfilling of God's word and will...
Did he mean that those who see, see sin? And that he came to blind people, meaning to take away their sins? But if it meant that it would also mean that those who didnot see sin, he would open their eyes to it?
What is seen as sin, should not be...if it is and someone sees it, and does nothing to stop em from sinning....leaving it be...and doing nothing..is this a sin aswell?....think about it in them terms perhaps....
Jesus said to the Pharisees....You are making a den of robbers, sinners, and thieves....as he kicked out certain commodities being asked for and used for living....here is one broken commandment....commandments are from God...not from Moses....God said he Gives Freely to all who hear his voice...and Yet only Humans charge humans to live...wonder why?...again not only blind, but deaf and dumb to...eh?
One of the more curious things I have read from Jesus.
Jesus said many things..but one thing he always said...was I am the truth, the light, and the way.....follow me......and he leads us to God and the fulfillment of something important...a very important Job only Humans can do...care for the living things with Love...not money or profit...
Now look at the world they built with that very thing God said not to have or make (Idol) more important than God for Life.
Again a commandment not in order or being enforced...as the cost grows every higher in price to pay for and the taxes always going up.....to live in the world under that Idol....
So is if Freely Given to us?...no!...So who makes God a liar?....who has interveened and changed that Ideal?...
Is it sound and in peace and health, and sinlessness abounding?...No!...and it will never be, if it continues...."Your making a den of robbers and thieves, sinners and evildoers"...Jesus said once upon a time..while kicking at it.....Any truth to that now that we see?
So who is proving who the liar?
Now we can see...but can we do?
In all hopes Eden must be made new...by someone doing it for the right reasons...in the right spirit...sinlessly....to reverse the curse of death perhaps...perhaps not....only time will tell..when they start trying.
Others can and do make any claim they want. Whether their claim is valid or not is important.
Well I consider any group claims to personalize the bible to their particular group, as invalid. More than two thirds of the bible was written before any Christian was alive.
Excuse me Walter, I shouldnot have said that, my mind was on disputing the concept of a christian bible. I cannot interpit what Jews consider as their bible. I don't view the Jews as trying to usurp the bible as a whole as their own.
Jesus said many things..but one thing he always said...was I am the truth, the light, and the way.....follow me
I agree with much of what you said, but I can't get over this concept of what happened to Adam in Eden being continually described as " The Fall." Many Christians keep describing those events in Eden as a fall out of grace with God, he gave them grace all of their very long lives. And they didnot " Fall out of Eden", they were intentionally set up by God and pushed out of Eden deliberately.
I agree with much of what you said, but I can't get over this concept of what happened to Adam in Eden being continually described as " The Fall." Many Christians keep describing those events in Eden as a fall out of grace with God, he gave them grace all of their very long lives. And they didnot " Fall out of Eden", they were intentionally set up by God and pushed out of Eden deliberately.
Perhaps...as you claim they were setup...?...But if we try to understand something about God being the authority of everything..and putting things in their placement for reasons unknown or Not disclosed...for there was no reason to disclose, if they followed the will and word...to not touch something or take something out of its placement....this tree, plant, seed..vine or what ever it was..that was disrespected through the disobediance of the two God told ...DO NOT TOUCH THIS< DO NOT EAT OF THIS< DO NOT DISOBEY...or YOU SHALL SURELY DIE....and what happend to the whole, when something of importance is taken out of its place that is paramount in the making and workings of a said system of perfection?.....well it is no longer perfect is it?...it may seem like everything is ok...while the entity (Plant based it seems) is abused and over indulgance of it , and disrespecting its holiness...making it plain...taking it out of order in oh so many ways...not putting back as it should be ...if it was stollen from God and the Garden...by way of disobediance....then the right thing to do would be to put it back sinlessly....reason one...the commandments = To make holy enough to do something in acts.....Acts..to finish restoration of what Adama and Eve Screwed up...Salvation = to those who try to do what I believe is the moral compilation of the bible...to fix what was undone...to right a wrong...to correct error where error is..and make it right...for the right reasons.....Now how many have tried?....how many people put into prison for growing certain plants God said he has given us freely...Prohibition stops the climatization of the planet...and with that ongoing to this day...the blind, deaf and dumb over rule the seeing....and they do not take note of the weather or the woe....cause it profits them more!
SO..as long as it is out of order, and continuing in that direction...nobody can put it back unless they are children...and even they are now targeted by demons...so that they defile them before they even get a chance to do what God has written in their hearts to do....it is human nature to want to understand Nature and its entitiies...to tame them..to want to be partners with them...in some respects...to gain their aid in life.
If one thing is upset by us..as a race...that effects them others that are not human...we will gain their disfavour....and tensions will rise up...kingdom against kingdom...is our way now known to be unnatural in nature..a natural progression in respect of the whole living world and all its entities?...if we remove or prohibite certain plants from being sown to feed, to replace, and to make sound holy ground?..or fix the matrix God made with them all in mind...
It is not in disrespect that I say these things...and throughout the Bible and even other religions...plants are very important partners in Life.
So the prohibition of certain plants...and the idea of a living free for free...giving, sharing, and caring for free...would solve the need for sexual prositiution, crime, theift, and salvery...and a different spirit would arise...Like Jesus, in oh so many.....but look at the world humans are now building....it is on the brink of colapse, dispare, war, and starvation ..while the price to live in it goes every higher..and less jobs to pay the commdity (idol) God said not to make more important than he.
So how far off the mark do you think we are today if a loaf of bread cost almost $5,00?..."give us this day our daily bread?"...is forgotten? along with all the other givens....wonder why?.. I do
Perhaps I am wrong....we are trying to share and or enforce that Idol...and give it to those who do not have it....but it is never enough to solve the poroblems it creates...because it is at the root of the problem.....Like Jesus said .
Again seeing , knowing, and trying..and doing...well that is part of the trick of the tale....the moral end...the final confrontation of God vs Human...is to make change...to right that which is wronged...to judge righteously..by way of God's word and will...and Jesus proclaiming it in the flesh...it is all Good when taken with thanksgiving....Perhaps means something more.
Maybe when people try to understand some of the other things living with us..."Let the living tend to the living"...means everything LIVING>..the whole is greator than the one set against.....that is the kingdom of God!...EDEN.
Now if God made that once upon a time...then it was his will to do so...and it should continue to multiply with out help...or we try to make amends or move towards that ideal ...natural estates..tame...with all the Givens in toe in good stewardship...and multiplied with respect of the whole, for the whole..by the whole....and then multiply that into the heavens.
So To tend and keep the Garden, is by far the most important Job God could give us....Now look at the polluted mess we have made of it....for $$$ sake.
I'd say we are not on the right pathway...But perhaps a polluted world is more healthy for me and you, and those to come...
Perhaps nuclear weapons prolifiration and abuse of the atom is in our best interests to have stockpiled weapons, and the waste disgarded secretly into our enviroments to mutate, and twist living things into other things....
Perhaps the lies told to sell us energy at a high price, and make that a needed estate...while taking away the plants that help climatize the planet naturally go unsown...so the need for energy rises....as the weather goes nuts....
And food from the lands become more and more harder to get...as the soils deplete and dry up..Drought...and the produce becomes tasteless and unpleasantly blemished....when we see odd weather, fireseason, and the like..when water does not put out fire, and the need to add retardants to the water to become effective, polluting the lands more with those chemicals and retardants,...more sickness and suffering ..only to fuel more profits in pharmacuticals and hospital billing..Higher taxes to fuel the making of more weapons and sin and evil abound more in our faces......Perhaps when we see all these things...and ask ourselves why???.....perhaps then some will see, hear, and understand a bit more?
Let me add this...the fundamentals of life being God = truth, water, air , soil, sun, electricity, atomic, and subatomic, biological, and plants...the elementals of life of a matrix...if we pollute and distroy or damage them , or without understanding trying to remove a food producer and textile, water filtering, oxygen making, c02 consuming agent Plant or plants ... the allies of those things..necessary for the whole thing to work right...we make our own woe if we try to stamp it out of existence.......Perhaps?
Think about it ...maybe you will agree?...maybe God wanted to make us understand it all by Pushing us out into what we created? or they created?.. due to our disobediance, or theirs, and lack of scope, and in showing us first hand what comes of it....if we continue to disobey the laws of the land, and God.....it will all be destroyed...by Human hand no doubt about it...it is already at that point in time line zero...how many more times around zero can we go round the truth of it......Perhaps some is true?.
And so if you read what I put there, and look at the world humans are creating ...and the weapons of mass destruction, the oppression of the truth, the corruption of the system of the said IDOL $,,,and the suffering of all living things due to the industrial revolution into stupidity and garbage piles, pesticides, and chemical war on other living things, and the pollution of the elementals....in our own demise into ill health and more suffering...You can see Just how far we have fallen...and still are to fall...if we go to destruction by our own handyworks, and destroy not only ourselves but the Eco system as well.....So what is Evil...or Anti God..Or Anti Christ...is the anti of life....the opposer of good sound and healthly presteen estates...the supporters of corruption and chaos...holding plants in some bent judgement of crime ..the speaker of lies against the truth of God.....which is all about a Garden principle....Yes?...making that, and multiplying and sharing it, by Giving and making more for more to live together for the greator good of all living things, sinlessly with Love of Life.....removes the need for sin and evil...which Jesus proclaimed was the root of the IDOL told not to have before God or made important for life than God or the truth of God being it is all Good and in its rightful placement it all works for the greator Good of all and God......so are we learning?...or are we still falling from grace?...as Adam and Eve continue to think they rule something here of this world in constant sin and corruption and evil...polluting life so it becomes lifeless, or mutated into something unknown to God....now that is a kingdom no one will rule for long.
Any truth to it?
Last edited by Sir Les; 01-29-2012 at 12:01 PM..
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