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But it was the god Jesus who said it, not some anonymous middle eastern resident. You know, the god that a billion or more people hope to be real close with when they die.
he is not god, and said so, he was a jewish carpenter and a very unpopular one. caused a lot of trouble and always spoke up was not afraid to tell it like it is. i like him. he was the most politically incorrect person that ever lived. i like him.
so being jewish and from the mideast he said a lot of mideastern stuff which was law of the mideast. pretty much like sharia law. we on the other hand do not practice sharia law we got unlimited resources so we do a lot of time out and counseling for blood thirsty murdering devils. truly worthless people, we spend millions on them.
that is fine as long as we dont run out of money. at some point in our history we stopped punishing wrong doing and starting punishing those who had been wronged. who is more crazy them or us?
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,916,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivierad
I guess I need to repeat myself...
You are misunderstanding the quote totally; in that particular quote Jesus was quoting from Mosaic Law to show the Pharisees how hypocritical they were. Jesus died for our sins and he never ever said to kill anyone, do any harm or anything bad. Indeed he saved a women (Mary Magdalena) from being stoned to death for adultery. So don't bring a nonsense quote and make people believe Jesus now ask people to kill whether that is an adult or children.
Old Testament/Jewish law does not apply to Christians.
Jesus came to liberate us from the Mosaic Law and to introduce a new covenant with God's people.
Try actually reading Mark 5:17, in context, and not put your own spin on it. No, Jesus was negating Mosaic Law, he was admonishing the Pharisees for not following it versus them admonishing him for not washing his hands before eating. Remember, the fulfill thing didn't mean that Jesus disavowed the Law, in fact, he said he fully endorsed it.
Quit listening to the pulpit and learn what your bible actually says.
Quote:
Ps: there are 2.2 billion Christians in the world currently.... Not only a billion.
Lighten up. Many things were attributed to Jesus that are inconsistent with His unambiguous life and death. His actions speak louder than any words that have been put in His mouth. There is no way that Jesus could possess so much agape love for us all that He could actually love even His torturers and murderers!! Everything that is attributed to Christ MUST pass the agape love test. It MUST be compatible with agape love or it is NOT from Christ, period.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Cupper,
Lighten up. Many things were attributed to Jesus that are inconsistent with His unambiguous life and death. His actions speak louder than any words that have been put in His mouth. There is no way that Jesus could possess so much agape love for us all that He could actually love even His torturers and murderers!! Everything that is attributed to Christ MUST pass the agape love test. It MUST be compatible with agape love or it is NOT from Christ, period.
I can't help what is said in the bible, and there are so many literalists who ignore some of the "difficult parts". I also can't help that this is one of those difficult passages.
You know, like the one where Jesus gives instructions how to whip and beat slaves. Or where he cruelly tells a grieving son that the dead should bury the dead. Or where he says that he came to destroy families.
You know, difficult stuff like that. I didn't write that book, I'm just pointing out what is in it.
Lighten up. Many things were attributed to Jesus that are inconsistent with His unambiguous life and death. His actions speak louder than any words that have been put in His mouth. There is no way that Jesus could possess so much agape love for us all that He could actually love even His torturers and murderers!! Everything that is attributed to Christ MUST pass the agape love test. It MUST be compatible with agape love or it is NOT from Christ, period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3
I can't help what is said in the bible, and there are so many literalists who ignore some of the "difficult parts". I also can't help that this is one of those difficult passages.
You know, like the one where Jesus gives instructions how to whip and beat slaves. Or where he cruelly tells a grieving son that the dead should bury the dead. Or where he says that he came to destroy families.
You know, difficult stuff like that. I didn't write that book, I'm just pointing out what is in it.
Then focus on the Bible itself. Do not denigrate Jesus because of the ignorance and cultural barbarity of those who wrote about Him. It serves no positive purpose to denigrate such a powerful and beautiful role model to assuage your atheist itches and desires to rub the nonsense in the faces of Bible inerrantists. They are NOT Christ's fault. Make them your target . . . NOT Christ.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,916,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Then focus on the Bible itself. Do not denigrate Jesus because of the ignorance and cultural barbarity of those who wrote about Him. It serves no positive purpose to denigrate such a powerful and beautiful role model to assuage your atheist itches and desires to rub the nonsense in the faces of Bible inerrantists. They are NOT Christ's fault. Make them your target . . . NOT Christ.
Seeing that the bible is pretty well the only documentation that is offered for the Jesus that is talked about, it is pretty difficult to avoid it, right?
Of course, if your referring to the plageristic practices of those that wrote things down some 2000, and borrowed similar tales about Mithra, Horus, Dionysus, Hercules, Mazda and other like born of a virgin and died a violent death but got resurrected legends, well, that may be another story.
Now this would be the Jesus that loves children, right? Yeah, right.
No, this is the Jesus that has no problem with what is written in the Old Testament, and as an observant Jew, in fact, endorses it.
So the discussion comes to disobedient children. As we know in the Old Testament, the right and proper thing to do is to kill them, including stoning them to death. You know, like some fundy Muslims decree today. Oh, hold it, even the fundy Muslims won't stone disobedient children. No, only Jesus subscribes to that. But I digress.
Mark 7:10 says: (and yes, it IS in context, the apologists favorite deflection)
7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
So, seeing Jesus is god or something like that, it seems that Jesus the god did not contradict god the god in the OT. Kill disobedient kids!!! Me, Jesus, says it must be done and it is moral to do so!! Kill your son! Kill your daughter! Kill them if they don't listen. Me, Jesus, the one who tells you how to beat your slaves, now tells you to when to kill your children.
I have to agree that this is not Jesus approving that law on killing disobedient children, but of pointing out that Jewish laws require children to be obedient to their parents. Jesus' own actions don't exactly follow such a ruling.
He was using the law to illustrate supposed Jewish hypocrisy in dedicating their wealth to the Temple thus leaving their folks short of cash. This is a bit hypocritical of Jesus who certainly puts God ahead of family, with the strong suggestion that his followers should do it, too.
The message of the Gospels from the Widow's mite to Ananias and Sapphra is 'give all your money to the church. Don't even think of keeping a cent for yourself'.
Now this would be the Jesus that loves children, right? Yeah, right.
No, this is the Jesus that has no problem with what is written in the Old Testament, and as an observant Jew, in fact, endorses it.
So the discussion comes to disobedient children. As we know in the Old Testament, the right and proper thing to do is to kill them, including stoning them to death. You know, like some fundy Muslims decree today. Oh, hold it, even the fundy Muslims won't stone disobedient children. No, only Jesus subscribes to that. But I digress.
Mark 7:10 says: (and yes, it IS in context, the apologists favorite deflection)
7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
So, seeing Jesus is god or something like that, it seems that Jesus the god did not contradict god the god in the OT. Kill disobedient kids!!! Me, Jesus, says it must be done and it is moral to do so!! Kill your son! Kill your daughter! Kill them if they don't listen. Me, Jesus, the one who tells you how to beat your slaves, now tells you to when to kill your children.
The Bible is the word of God!
Except for the inconvenient parts, which can be ignored for any one of a variety of baseless, illogical, and inconsistently-applied excuses...
I can't help what is said in the bible, and there are so many literalists who ignore some of the "difficult parts". I also can't help that this is one of those difficult passages.
You know, like the one where Jesus gives instructions how to whip and beat slaves. Or where he cruelly tells a grieving son that the dead should bury the dead. Or where he says that he came to destroy families.
You know, difficult stuff like that. I didn't write that book, I'm just pointing out what is in it.
Well, that is perhaps your problem. Instead of pointing out the flaws of a bronze-aged collection of myths, put it away. Put it away, and go out into the world. Practice kindness, love and charity. GO out and help feed people, either box up food at a pantry, or collect donations. Drive a disabled veteran to his doctor's appointments. Volunteer at your kid's school. Opportunities are more abundant than excuses, when one gets down to it.
Yes, we all know that the Bible is not the "Good book." Many of us have read it, studied it, and made the enlightened decision to put it away. Instead of reinforcing to everyone how bad of a book it is, and how unhealthy and backwards those who follow it are, be that beacon of light in the world. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Be a winner. You don't need a book for that.
Well, that is perhaps your problem. Instead of pointing out the flaws of a bronze-aged collection of myths, put it away. Put it away, and go out into the world. Practice kindness, love and charity. GO out and help feed people, either box up food at a pantry, or collect donations. Drive a disabled veteran to his doctor's appointments. Volunteer at your kid's school. Opportunities are more abundant than excuses, when one gets down to it.
Yes, we all know that the Bible is not the "Good book." Many of us have read it, studied it, and made the enlightened decision to put it away. Instead of reinforcing to everyone how bad of a book it is, and how unhealthy and backwards those who follow it are, be that beacon of light in the world. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Be a winner. You don't need a book for that.
Yeah ... but this is a debate and discussion forum, not a charity forum.
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Jesus: Kill children that don't obey!
