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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,917,771 times
Reputation: 4561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat
Well, that is perhaps your problem. Instead of pointing out the flaws of a bronze-aged collection of myths, put it away. Put it away, and go out into the world. Practice kindness, love and charity. GO out and help feed people, either box up food at a pantry, or collect donations. Drive a disabled veteran to his doctor's appointments. Volunteer at your kid's school. Opportunities are more abundant than excuses, when one gets down to it.
Yes, we all know that the Bible is not the "Good book." Many of us have read it, studied it, and made the enlightened decision to put it away. Instead of reinforcing to everyone how bad of a book it is, and how unhealthy and backwards those who follow it are, be that beacon of light in the world. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Be a winner. You don't need a book for that.
I am here on a mission of de-conversion.
So far, I'm having as much luck as those nice young Mormon boys who come to my door.
But Cupper, you are better than those nice young Mormons who come to your door. You are the one who can make the difference. And you do not need a Bible, with all of it's shortcomings, inconsistencies and, followers to show that.
keep in mind, You cannot reconcile anything taken out of context, and you cannot realistically expect accuracy from something written generations after an event.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,917,771 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat
But Cupper, you are better than those nice young Mormons who come to your door. You are the one who can make the difference. And you do not need a Bible, with all of it's shortcomings, inconsistencies and, followers to show that.
keep in mind, You cannot reconcile anything taken out of context, and you cannot realistically expect accuracy from something written generations after an event.
Now try and tell that to all the apologists on this board. Bring up a difficult point, your told "it is out of context", or, my favorite as they always tell us how literal the bible must be read, "that is not literal, that is allegory or a parable".
I love their ability to deflect, twist, turn and dance.
Now, why DID Jesus think it was appropriate to kill those kids?
Now this would be the Jesus that loves children, right? Yeah, right.
No, this is the Jesus that has no problem with what is written in the Old Testament, and as an observant Jew, in fact, endorses it.
So the discussion comes to disobedient children. As we know in the Old Testament, the right and proper thing to do is to kill them, including stoning them to death. You know, like some fundy Muslims decree today. Oh, hold it, even the fundy Muslims won't stone disobedient children. No, only Jesus subscribes to that. But I digress.
Mark 7:10 says: (and yes, it IS in context, the apologists favorite deflection)
7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
So, seeing Jesus is god or something like that, it seems that Jesus the god did not contradict god the god in the OT. Kill disobedient kids!!! Me, Jesus, says it must be done and it is moral to do so!! Kill your son! Kill your daughter! Kill them if they don't listen. Me, Jesus, the one who tells you how to beat your slaves, now tells you to when to kill your children.
By "in context," you mean that Jesus was calling out the Pharisees, who claimed to uphold all of the laws so much that they were perfect, because they were neglecting their responsibilities towards their parents by giving additional money to the temple treasury.
Cupper, would you be so kind as to quote the Mosaic Law Jesus was referring to? If we are going to have any discussion or debate on the issue, full disclosure is indeed warranted, yes?
Mark 7:10 says: (and yes, it IS in context, the apologists favorite deflection)
7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
Actually, it is NOT in context, as the context is ALL of Chap 10, not just the single sentence.
It continues to amaze how like unto the fundamentalists folks like you are - searching high and low throughout the bible, taking words here, phrases there, and patching them together into some bizarre argument that completely ignores not just the biblical context, but the contemporary cultural context of the times.
I can't help what is said in the bible, and there are so many literalists who ignore some of the "difficult parts". I also can't help that this is one of those difficult passages.
You know, like the one where Jesus gives instructions how to whip and beat slaves. Or where he cruelly tells a grieving son that the dead should bury the dead. Or where he says that he came to destroy families.
You know, difficult stuff like that. I didn't write that book, I'm just pointing out what is in it.
Ah, but unless you are a koine expert, and have studied in detail the New Testament, and unless you are an expert in Hebrew and have studied both the written and oral traditions in detail, then you are doing what the fundamentalists do - reading from your English translations words and phrases taken from hither and yon, then concluding what you conclude.
I notice you make assertions as to what Jesus says, but do not provide citations so that folks like me can check the contexts.
But I'll give you one that folks like you like to claim, and about which you are completely wrong.
The standard English translation of Luke 14:26 is "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple."
The true meaning of the greek word is not the opposite of love, but rather means "indifferent". The context is that Jesus demands that God be first in our lives. You know. Kinda like the greatest commandment is to love God, and the second greatest commandment is love your neighbor as yourself.
But you can keep believing your English translation and your patchwork theology, thus losing the original meaning and context. Just like the fundamentalists.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,917,771 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmann
Ah, but unless you are a koine expert, and have studied in detail the New Testament, and unless you are an expert in Hebrew and have studied both the written and oral traditions in detail, then you are doing what the fundamentalists do - reading from your English translations words and phrases taken from hither and yon, then concluding what you conclude.
I notice you make assertions as to what Jesus says, but do not provide citations so that folks like me can check the contexts.
But I'll give you one that folks like you like to claim, and about which you are completely wrong.
The standard English translation of Luke 14:26 is "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple."
The true meaning of the greek word is not the opposite of love, but rather means "indifferent". The context is that Jesus demands that God be first in our lives. You know. Kinda like the greatest commandment is to love God, and the second greatest commandment is love your neighbor as yourself.
But you can keep believing your English translation and your patchwork theology, thus losing the original meaning and context. Just like the fundamentalists.
Well, I can't claim to be a koine expert, but I can claim that I have compared the KVJ to a second language to see what differences may occur (there are some). I've studied university level comparative religions, and I've studied concordances that ran into 11 volumes, with each volume approaching 1000 pages.
So, that being said, I rely on the translation that is the basis for what most fundamentalists and literalists base their versions on, the KJV. After all, that is the one that all these representations are based on.
Here is your original post. I hope I didn't distort the meaning of what you said by using a mere sentence fragment. See, I figured if you could capture the full meaning of what is happening in Mark 7 with a sentence fragment then the same technique should easily work on your post. Looks like I got about the same level of accuracy as you did. Thanks for the handy tip.
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