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I think the question that needs to be asked is "What makes one a Christian?" I think people are talking past each other.
I think that as soon as we ask that question, we're going to find ourselves in a heated argument that will never be resolved, either here on City-Data or anywhere else. What we really need to do is just let God make that call, 'cause in the end, His opinion is the only one that's going to matter anyway.
I think that as soon as we ask that question, we're going to find ourselves in a heated argument that will never be resolved, either here on City-Data or anywhere else. What we really need to do is just let God make that call, 'cause in the end, His opinion is the only one that's going to matter anyway.
I don't even get some of the thinking here and maybe I shouldn't even try. The Catholic church was founded because of Jesus 2000 years ago. Pretty much all other Christian denominations have come out of the Catholic Church including the Eastern Orthodox Church. The vast majority of Protestants of England today would still be Catholics if not for the fact Henry VIII wanted a divorce. Henry VIII was a devout Catholic before that. England would be another Catholic dominated country like Ireland. The Founding Fathers would have been Catholic.
Evangelicals and other offshoots of Protestantism would have been considered heretics and put to death by Henry VIII and many of these offshoot Christian protestant religions wouldn't even exist today.
So I don't get the thinking "my brand of Christianity is better than yours because it's new and improved" which is basically what it comes down to. The new and improved version of Christianity by Evangelicals and other protestants or the old original Christianity called Catholicism.
Either way, there's not much difference in them. It's like asking do you prefer your eggs fried instead of scrambled. You're still eating eggs, they're just presented differently.
That's not accurate, although I know it's what you were taught. Roman Catholicism did not really rise until several hundred years after Christ. I suggest you read Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years by Diarmaid McCulloch. It's not a tome for the faint of heart, but the description of the earliest churches is in some of the chapters closest to the beginning.
There were the Syriac churches, which never had a Roman connection. Same with the Ethiopian church and the churches in Northern Africa. Then there are the Mar Thoma Christians in India whose first contact with Catholicism was in the 15th century when Portuguese missionaries arrived in India only to find that Christianity was already there, albeit not in a form of which they approved. To this day, the Mar Thoma church conducts part of its liturgy in Syriac, a language very close to the Aramaic that Jesus spoke.
The Roman Catholic Church only became what it was because it aligned with the political powers. That was not what Jesus started at all. That is not to say that Catholics aren't Christians--as individuals, they are, but the organization known as the RCC is not what Jesus started, not by a long shot.
The Reformation was an attempt to return to the origins of the early church. They could never agree on what that was, and that's why there are so many versions of "the church".
That's not accurate, although I know it's what you were taught. Roman Catholicism did not really rise until several hundred years after Christ. I suggest you read Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years by Diarmaid McCulloch. It's not a tome for the faint of heart, but the description of the earliest churches is in some of the chapters closest to the beginning.
There were the Syriac churches, which never had a Roman connection. Same with the Ethiopian church and the churches in Northern Africa. Then there are the Mar Thoma Christians in India whose first contact with Catholicism was in the 15th century when Portuguese missionaries arrived in India only to find that Christianity was already there, albeit not in a form of which they approved. To this day, the Mar Thoma church conducts part of its liturgy in Syriac, a language very close to the Aramaic that Jesus spoke.
The Roman Catholic Church only became what it was because it aligned with the political powers. That was not what Jesus started at all. That is not to say that Catholics aren't Christians--as individuals, they are, but the organization known as the RCC is not what Jesus started, not by a long shot.
The Reformation was an attempt to return to the origins of the early church. They could never agree on what that was, and that's why there are so many versions of "the church".
That's not accurate, although I know it's what you were taught. Roman Catholicism did not really rise until several hundred years after Christ. I suggest you read Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years by Diarmaid McCulloch. It's not a tome for the faint of heart, but the description of the earliest churches is in some of the chapters closest to the beginning.
There were the Syriac churches, which never had a Roman connection. Same with the Ethiopian church and the churches in Northern Africa. Then there are the Mar Thoma Christians in India whose first contact with Catholicism was in the 15th century when Portuguese missionaries arrived in India only to find that Christianity was already there, albeit not in a form of which they approved. To this day, the Mar Thoma church conducts part of its liturgy in Syriac, a language very close to the Aramaic that Jesus spoke.
The Roman Catholic Church only became what it was because it aligned with the political powers. That was not what Jesus started at all. That is not to say that Catholics aren't Christians--as individuals, they are, but the organization known as the RCC is not what Jesus started, not by a long shot.
The Reformation was an attempt to return to the origins of the early church. They could never agree on what that was, and that's why there are so many versions of "the church".
Roman Catholicism did not really rise until several hundred years after Christ.
I suggest you read Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years by Diarmaid McCulloch.
those people are just as legalistic as the catholic church they hate so much. at least the catholic church don't require you to go to church 3-5 times a week like kip mceans icoc and icc and others
Legalistic cults like the ICoC have complete control over it's members lives.
Heck, quite often they are required to live together in same sex commune type situations.
Anybody can come and go from a Catholic church as they please.
But the definition of a cult varies for many, some just say anything that deviates from biblical teaching.
That usually means "works" to the born agains, as opposed to faith alone.
The ICoC for instance would be considered deviant on water baptism as necessary for salvation, that is a "work" according to Evangelicals. (forget about the Discipling movement and control techniques)
To Catholics, works are something that follows from faith, and not a prerequisite.
That's not accurate, although I know it's what you were taught. Roman Catholicism did not really rise until several hundred years after Christ. I suggest you read Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years by Diarmaid McCulloch. It's not a tome for the faint of heart, but the description of the earliest churches is in some of the chapters closest to the beginning.
There were the Syriac churches, which never had a Roman connection. Same with the Ethiopian church and the churches in Northern Africa. Then there are the Mar Thoma Christians in India whose first contact with Catholicism was in the 15th century when Portuguese missionaries arrived in India only to find that Christianity was already there, albeit not in a form of which they approved. To this day, the Mar Thoma church conducts part of its liturgy in Syriac, a language very close to the Aramaic that Jesus spoke.
The Roman Catholic Church only became what it was because it aligned with the political powers. That was not what Jesus started at all. That is not to say that Catholics aren't Christians--as individuals, they are, but the organization known as the RCC is not what Jesus started, not by a long shot.
The Reformation was an attempt to return to the origins of the early church. They could never agree on what that was, and that's why there are so many versions of "the church".
That's very informative and a great post. It doesn't however change anything regarding the fact that Protestant factions of Christianity are derived from the Catholic Church including the Evangelical and Baptist churches. It's not relevant if the Catholic Church as been around 2000 years or 1500 years. It's much older than any Protestant sect because all Protestant sects came from this Church, directly or indirectly. These were Catholics that had a gripe with the church for one reason or another, broke off and started their own versions of Christianity. The basic Christian beliefs are the same. Jesus is our savior and so on. That doesn't change from church to church. For a Protestant sect to say Catholics aren't Christians is like a person having an argument with their parents and then hating their parents so much that they deny being related to them.
Last edited by marino760; 06-17-2017 at 06:12 AM..
We are ecumenical Christians here. A few of the kids are Catholic and the rest of us are mainstream protestants. We all believe the same things, but the service is a bit different. I personally don't like the catholic service, because to me it seems like something that is done for you/to you, instead of with you. I think this is because, in the old days, the followers were considered too dumb and uneducated to understand. I do not like non traditional Protestant services, but a lot of people do.
I always say, I like my religion quiet and plain.
Anyway, my point is, of course Catholic is Christian. It's just the delivery system that's different.
Thank you, all. I do have moments when all the neurons are firing.
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