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And I've met criminals that can't understand why those cops won't stop hassling them! From their perspective, it's perfectly reasonable that they should be able to smoke all the dope they want and ignore whatever laws they choose !
Ah...No...That is just plain dishonest...They just don't care...They know they are wrong but do it anyway...You know, the way that you take advantage of people...
I've heard most of the standard apologetics a million times and as for homework? Always heh heh. I've taken a break from the forums, as it has gotten very... combative and filled with threads with pretty elementary topics/questions which are neither interesting or informed ("Your God is bad because he drowned animals. Is He not familiar with PETA?" - a good example).
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Originally Posted by Richard1965
You're getting close...It is HaSatan's job to "walk up and down, to and fro" looking for those that are worthy...Most folks think that he was searching for someone to tempt into evil...Not so...He is not portrayed as evil in Job...And Many mortal folks were called satan that weren't bad or evil...Mostly, us humans are Satan...
I assume you're getting the "looking for those that are worthy" part from your particular interpretive tradition, which is fine. The peshat of Job seem to hint that the satan was "walking up and down, to and for" to serve as a type of royal spy in the role of finding possible rebels and bringing them to trial - see the "Eyes and Ears" of the Persian kings. The summation I gave was extremely brief. It's been stated in much more depth in previous threads, as well as being readily available in various published works.
The character of "the satan" (I don't normally use HaSatan simply because most English-speakers are not familiar with the Hebrew definite article, and I don't like to attribute a capital "S" as it can give the wrong impression - that it was a personal name, and not a job title/description or common noun) definitely filled various roles in the HB - I don't think we could definitively pin him/it/them (seeing as it is, as you observed, not a "being") down to one specific role. Just like many things in the HB, ideas and concepts changed and evolved over time - and "the satan" was not immune to this fact.
And I've met criminals that can't understand why those cops won't stop hassling them! From their perspective, it's perfectly reasonable that they should be able to smoke all the dope they want and ignore whatever laws they choose !
If you want to make this an honest analogy, the police would arrest the criminal, throw him in a fiery pit and not allow him to die but rather, walk away and let him scream in continuous pain for tens of thousands of years...for committing one thought crime.
The police would shrug, "He's the one who 'chose' this." They'd add, "Hey, what can we do? Even though we invented this system and even though we literally hold all the power to change it, or anything on earth, uh, um...illologically, our hands are tied."
And THIS, those "criminals" would not be able to understand.
There ya go, fixed it for ya. You're welcome, Viz.
I can say this much: if in our criminal justice system, we punished thieves by setting them on fire and listening to them scream endlessly in horrific agony, somebody would have some 'splaining to do.
I can say this much: if in our criminal justice system, we punished thieves by setting them on fire and listening to them scream endlessly in horrific agony, somebody would have some 'splaining to do.
Like I said earlier. There really is no battle between Satan and God...Think of God as the father and Satan as a two year old toddler. The idea of positive and negative forces existing in the universe is simply the mechanics of existence. Good and evil have their purpose. The satanic notion of the character we call the devil is a bit of a myth...Much like the misunderstood idea of Judas the betrayer...which he was NOT...Jesus leaned over to Judas and told him what to do...Judas was reluctant to carry out the orders of Christ...it was Christ that insisted that Judas help bring about the necessary drama between him and the Romans....
So why is it that people look at Judas as a villain when he was not? As for the devil....He is controlled by God...and if Satan did fall from grace I am sure that he learned his lesson and returned to work and obedience - after all Satan was one of God's most beautiful creations...It is mankind that keep this myth alive that Satan or the devil is creating the mayhem on earth...It is time for humanity to take the responsibility for the actions of mankind...stop blaming the devil.
I can not stand evangelicals who blame the devil...especially the commercialized TV preachers...Trust your eyes...these people look much more evil than any devil.
If you want to make this an honest analogy, the police would arrest the criminal, throw him in a fiery pit and not allow him to die but rather, walk away and let him scream in continuous pain for tens of thousands of years...for committing one thought crime.
They give the criminal what he deserves under our system of justice.
Quote:
The police would shrug, "He's the one who 'chose' this." They'd add, "Hey, what can we do? Even though we invented this system and even though we literally hold all the power to change it, or anything on earth, uh, um...illologically, our hands are tied."
And THIS, those "criminals" would not be able to understand.
There ya go, fixed it for ya. You're welcome, Viz.
I can say this much: if in our criminal justice system, we punished thieves by setting them on fire and listening to them scream endlessly in horrific agony, somebody would have some 'splaining to do.
So, you agree that God is just in punishing sinners, but your concern now is the extent to which they're punished?
Satan hates all mankind so much that he spends every day working to cause chaos, fear, pain and misery in our lives. I have no doubt that Satan has played a major role in most of the suicides by injecting thoughts of self-pity, self-loathing, and low self-esteem for example.
So yea, Satan is kinda a baddie.
You cannot substantiate that comment with any evidence at all, you can't even prove Satan exists.
And I've met criminals that can't understand why those cops won't stop hassling them! From their perspective, it's perfectly reasonable that they should be able to smoke all the dope they want and ignore whatever laws they choose !
Why did your god create dope and not want us to use it?
It's like your prostate. Make it feel feel good when you massage it butt make rule worthy of death if ya do.
They give the criminal what he deserves under our system of justice.
Yes, we do. We imperfect, sorrowful, suck-ful, undeserving (and blah blah blah) humans. We try to only give the criminal a punishment appropriate to the crime.
The God of the Bible? not so much. Being set on fire for ten thousand years? You figure that's equivalent to giving "the criminal what he deserves"? That's very jihad of you.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
So, you agree that God is just in punishing sinners, but your concern now is the extent to which they're punished?
Well, certainly, LOL! If punishments fit crimes then it would all make sense, correct? That's how we operate here on earth, or ideally, anyway.
If I act like a jerknugget I do expect to be punished. I expect it here on earth, and if I believed in God I'd expect it from God as well. But where we humans sometimes get the punishment wrong, we at least TRY to make it fit the crime. According to the NT, one thought crime warrants literally an eternity of punishment. How is it that we humans manage to get things closer to actual justice than God? (And our mercy is exponentially higher.) Hmmm.
Maybe because the writers of the Good Book were vengeful and were just dying (no pun intended) to see the people who "did them wrong" burn and scream and twist? That's my take and I think it's a pretty accurate one.
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