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You really didn't answer WHY it's illegal or immoral. But thanks for trying to play.
Honestly...this is the same old thing every time. I pose a question...you guys are unable to answer it...you just say something to the effect of "well.....because! It's a stupid question anyway!!!!!!" Then, a few people toss in a few insults, answer a question that was never asked, and declare victory.
Oh sure, it might go on for another 15 pages while I try to rephrase the question in the hopes that maybe by asking it differently someone would grasp the concept....but the atheist crowd here is simply incapable of answering the most very basic question of WHY some things are moral, or immoral, other than that's their opinion.
It means everything. It's why a murderer is held accountable for murdering.
That's because we are thinking beings who do not operate mostly on instinct. We've had to create societal controls to suppress our base instincts otherwise any coherent civilization would be impossible.
That's because we are thinking beings who do not operate mostly on instinct. We've had to create societal controls to suppress our base instincts otherwise any coherent civilization would be impossible.
Except for the nazis. They thought murder was ok. Their society had no issue with murder.
Historically many other civilizations have mistreated parts of their society. A black man in the 1700's in America could be killed for no reason, with no penalty to the white owner. That is evil. But that's what society decided was ok.
Unless you have a time machine and can go back and verify first hand that there was never a global flood and the Ark never existed then you can not definitely say that the event is absolutely not factual. You have numerous civilizations all with a global flood story in their history with remarkable similarities to the Biblical account. That alone lends credibility to the story.
Well unless the user is directly comparing a dog park to a national park, your point is irrelevant. If a person feels propelled to take time to post a top rated review of their experience then that indicates that the experience was well worth their time.
But I can at least admit when we are wrong. If Ken Ham was truly cheating people and running a big scam then I wouldn't support this project.
1. No. It leads credence that there have always been regional floods. You know...like in North and South Carolina in the past couple of weeks. Nothing very complex about that.
2. No, it isn't irrelevant. Ratings on what is, in many ways, a great site are bizarre. Heck, by your standard, there are bowling alleys that are more impressive than your attraction.
3. Sorry, as we are learning in national news, right wing christianity is perfectly willing to support scams.
You really didn't answer WHY it's illegal or immoral. But thanks for trying to play.
Honestly...this is the same old thing every time. I pose a question...you guys are unable to answer it...you just say something to the effect of "well.....because! It's a stupid question anyway!!!!!!" Then, a few people toss in a few insults, answer a question that was never asked, and declare victory.
You would know all about that, wouldn't you.
Is the art of projection something you learn in church?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Oh sure, it might go on for another 15 pages while I try to rephrase the question in the hopes that maybe by asking it differently someone would grasp the concept....but the atheist crowd here is simply incapable of answering the most very basic question of WHY some things are moral, or immoral, other than that's their opinion.
Oh for Christ's sake, I explained this on numerous occasions. It's not that we're incapable of answering the questions. You just don't want to accept the answers.
Which is why you people keep trotting out this one-trick pony regarding morality again and again. And we answer it the same way ... again and again.
Why do you even bother asking questions when you know even before you post that we're not going to answer in the way you want.
What you're looking for is, "Well, gee ... I guess we don't really know! Therefore, it must be ... *gasp* GOD! And not just any god, but the very same God Baptist Fundie worships! Wow! And when is your church's next altar call? I'll be there with bells on!"
And until we answer your questions in that precise way, you will continue to IGNORE EVERYTHING we say and continue asking the question over and over ... like Ben Stein standing there in front of the class repeating, "Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?"
In fact, you don't even explain why you disagree with our answers or even make the attempt at posting even the most rudimentary refutation. Instead, you throw around insults and claim we're incapable of answering ... and then YOU claim victory. Just like you did in your post.
"Well, since they're not spoonfeeding me the answer I want, I win!"
Is the art of projection something you learn in church?
Oh for Christ's sake, I explained this on numerous occasions. It's not that we're incapable of answering the questions. You just don't want to accept the answers.
Which is why you people keep trotting out this one-trick pony regarding morality again and again. And we answer it the same way ... again and again.
Why do you even bother asking questions when you know even before you post that we're not going to answer in the way you want.
What you're looking for is, "Well, gee ... I guess we don't really know! Therefore, it must be ... *gasp* GOD! And not just any god, but the very same God Baptist Fundie worships! Wow! And when is your church's next altar call? I'll be there with bells on!"
And until we answer your questions in that precise way, you will continue to IGNORE EVERYTHING we say and continue asking ... like Ben Stein standing there in front of the class repeating, "Bueller? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?"
In fact, you don't even explain why you disagree with our answers or even make the attempt at posting even the most rudimentary refutation. Instead, you throw around insults and claim we're incapable of answering ... and then YOU claim victory. Just like you did in your post.
"Well, since they're not spoonfeeding me the answer I want, I win!"
You just ranted for several more lines didn't actually answer the question.
Sorry, but, while I agree with most everything else, violent video games have absolutely *nothing* to do with it.
Yeah, they're an easy scapegoat because, well, there's violence in them. But in truth, there is a correlation, if not a causation, that corresponds with lower crime rates when computer games are played since they also teach people cooperation, team playing, and allows the mentally and physically disabled to interact with other people while actually doing something -- and not just chatting in a "room" somewhere.
Fair enough. I am aware that the latest data suggest no clear causal relationship to video games, and could've left that off the list. My overarching point was that there are a whole host of POSSIBLE explanations for school shootings, none of them individually and solely responsible, and that churchgoing behavior isn't known to be among them.
Yes. And cannibalism is almost universally considered evil. It is certainly condemned by our Creator. Could you explain the point you're attempting to make? You're not doing very well.
Neither are you, though you may tell yourself that you are. Slavery is almost universally considered evil - but only because of centuries of arguing that it was so. It didn't come from the Bible. Come to think of it - where in the Bible does it say "Thou shall not eat thine own kind"? And didn't God actually have a person fed one of his relatives?
You are rather giving yourself away by declaring yourself the winner and trying to rule the debate over and won without any chance for reply. That rather than not being able to see that God says so (even if he doesn't) rather than 'we do this, generally, but we don't always know why' is Not a preferable morality is where you are being crafty as distinct from just wrongheaded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
You really didn't answer WHY it's illegal or immoral. But thanks for trying to play.
Honestly...this is the same old thing every time. I pose a question...you guys are unable to answer it...you just say something to the effect of "well.....because! It's a stupid question anyway!!!!!!" Then, a few people toss in a few insults, answer a question that was never asked, and declare victory.
Oh sure, it might go on for another 15 pages while I try to rephrase the question in the hopes that maybe by asking it differently someone would grasp the concept....but the atheist crowd here is simply incapable of answering the most very basic question of WHY some things are moral, or immoral, other than that's their opinion.
That's the way it looks to you, because you want to find things to put us down. But the fact is that we can't explain why Cannibalism is an instinctive taboo like incest, or crapping in public is a general tabo. But it has been broken, many times. It has sometimes become a custom to break it.
Whatever is behind cannibalism (or not) or having a harem of wives (or not) or a soldier having a male lover (or not), that we can't explain it in no way invalidates that we have a system of morality, based on instincts, reason and sheer practicality. It isn't perfect, and it needs to be altered at times, which makes it far better than an antique and pretty unpleasant system of laws that has been adapted to OUR morality anyway, but you pretend it hasn't.
Don't you see that not being able to account for every aspect of the system we put together is NOT a reason to toss it in the bin and turn to religion for it's marching orders?
And what a derail, while we're at it.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-26-2018 at 11:47 AM..
You really didn't answer WHY it's illegal or immoral. But thanks for trying to play.
Honestly...this is the same old thing every time. I pose a question...you guys are unable to answer it...you just say something to the effect of "well.....because! It's a stupid question anyway!!!!!!" Then, a few people toss in a few insults, answer a question that was never asked, and declare victory.
Oh sure, it might go on for another 15 pages while I try to rephrase the question in the hopes that maybe by asking it differently someone would grasp the concept....but the atheist crowd here is simply incapable of answering the most very basic question of WHY some things are moral, or immoral, other than that's their opinion.
That's the way it looks to you, because you want to find things to put us down. But the fact is that we can't explain why Cannibalism is an instinctive taboo like incest, or crapping in public is a general tabo. But it has been broken, many times. It has sometimes become a custom to break it.
Whatever is behind cannibalism (or not) and having a harem of wives (or not) or a soldier having a male lover (or not), that we can't explain it in no way invalidates that we have a systen of morality, based on instincts, reason and sheer practicality. It isn't perfect, and it needs to be altered at times, which makes it far better than an antique and pretty unpleasant system of laws that has been adapted to OUR morality anyway, but you pretend it hasn't.
Don't you see that not being able to account for every aspect of the system we put together is NOT a reason to toss it in the bin and turn to religion for it's marching orders?
Except for the nazis. They thought murder was ok. Their society had no issue with murder.
Wrong, the Nazis had the same laws against murder as everyone else. They believed murdering non-Germans and non-Aryans was okay, but even they had boundaries they wouldn't cross.
It's not as if Germany decended into anarchy because laws against murder were abolished.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Historically many other civilizations have mistreated parts of their society. A black man in the 1700's in America could be killed for no reason, with no penalty to the white owner. That is evil. But that's what society decided was ok.
Yes, but that doesn't invalidate my original point.
Being cruel to a small minority segment of the population doesn't equate to full-on, anything-goes, murder festivals.
I'd also point out that rarely does society think it's "okay." But, as with those who are the victims, the perpetrators are often a small segment of society.
For instance, only 8 million out of 60 million people in Germany actually joined the Nazi party -- and many of those who did join only did so because it was mandatory to keep their jobs.
MOST people in Germany opposed the mistreatment of Jews; anti-semitism was not all that common in Germany, though it was a big problem in Austria where Hitler came from.
This is why the Nazis kept the Holocaust as much of a secret as they could. The death camps were all located in Poland, far away from the prying eyes of German citizens. The Holocaust by Bullets took place in the Ukraine, again, far away from the criticisms of the German citizenry.
Most people truly believed the Jews were being "resettled in the East," completely oblivious to the fact that "resettlement" was just code to the Nazis that meant "extermination." They did this because the Nazis knew the citizens wouldn't approve. There were, in fact, a handful of protests and civil unrest in Nazi Germany regarding the mistreatment of Jews -- and each time it happened, the Nazi government was forced to back down.
Even at the end of the war, camp commandants were under orders to kill any surviving prisoners and to destroy the camps so that the advancing Russians would have no idea what those camps were for, and every Nazi involved with the Holocaust knew they were going to be put on trial and executed. Heinrich Himmler, the person most responsible for the Holocaust, actually tried to disguise himself as a common German soldier and mix in with the millions of German POWs ... why would he do THAT if he truly believed what he was doing wasn't on some level ... wrong?
Anyhow, the point I'm making is that the citizenry, by and large, had very little to do with the atrocities that happened in any nation. It was a tyrannical government and a small subset of the population who relishes cruelty.
One of the problems with living in a place like Nazi Germany -- or Stalinist Russia, Franco's Spain, Mussolini's Italy, Tojo's Japan, etc. etc. is that the citizens do not have the freedom to protest and voice their criticisms. As a result, people shut up and mind their own business, afraid for their *own* lives and the lives of their families. This often makes the citizenry look as if they were a part of the horror, guilty by association.
It's easy for people like us, living in a free country, to judge those in Germany, for instance, who "allowed" the Holocaust to happen. Yet if any of us were truly there, in Germany, while the Holocaust was taking place, how many of us would *really* raise a voice in opposition, knowing full well that you'd be in the gas chambers right next to the Jews -- and you will have accomplished nothing except getting your wife and kids killed, as well.
It was notoriously difficult to start a resistance movement in Germany, and the few that started were squashed within months because all it took was to recruit the wrong person and it was all over. Even professional infiltrators like the British SAS were rounded up and thrown into camps by the hundreds because of the Gestapo, simple German ingenuity, and that small pro-Nazi element that could be anywhere.
Okay, I'll now stop with my history lesson. Yeah, it's my passion, so I can really run at the mouth talking about the Third Reich and WWII.
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