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Wrong, the Nazis had the same laws against murder as everyone else. They believed murdering non-Germans and non-Aryans was okay, but even they had boundaries they wouldn't cross.
It's not as if Germany decended into anarchy because laws against murder were abolished.
And you would have us believe that we think it's ok to kill animals but not people...well...just because we have laws.
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Yes, but that doesn't invalidate my original point.
Being cruel to a small minority segment of the population doesn't equate to full-on, anything-goes, murder festivals.
I'd also point out that rarely does society think it's "okay." But, as with those who are the victims, the perpetrators are often a small segment of society.
For instance, only 8 million out of 60 million people in Germany actually joined the Nazi party -- and many of those who did join only did so because it was mandatory to keep their jobs.
MOST people in Germany opposed the mistreatment of Jews; anti-semitism was not all that common in Germany, though it was a big problem in Austria where Hitler came from.
This is why the Nazis kept the Holocaust as much of a secret as they could. The death camps were all located in Poland, far away from the prying eyes of German citizens. The Holocaust by Bullets took place in the Ukraine, again, far away from the criticisms of the German citizenry.
Most people truly believed the Jews were being "resettled in the East," completely oblivious to the fact that "resettlement" was just code to the Nazis that meant "extermination." They did this because the Nazis knew the citizens wouldn't approve. There were, in fact, a handful of protests and civil unrest in Nazi Germany regarding the mistreatment of Jews -- and each time it happened, the Nazi government was forced to back down.
Even at the end of the war, camp commandants were under orders to kill any surviving prisoners and to destroy the camps so that the advancing Russians would have no idea what those camps were for, and every Nazi involved with the Holocaust knew they were going to be put on trial and executed. Heinrich Himmler, the person most responsible for the Holocaust, actually tried to disguise himself as a common German soldier and mix in with the millions of German POWs ... why would he do THAT if he truly believed what he was doing wasn't on some level ... wrong?
Anyhow, the point I'm making is that the citizenry, by and large, had very little to do with the atrocities that happened in any nation. It was a tyrannical government and a small subset of the population who relishes cruelty.
One of the problems with living in a place like Nazi Germany -- or Stalinist Russia, Franco's Spain, Mussolini's Italy, Tojo's Japan, etc. etc. is that the citizens do not have the freedom to protest and voice their criticisms. As a result, people shut up and mind their own business, afraid for their *own* lives and the lives of their families. This often makes the citizenry look as if they were a part of the horror, guilty by association.
It's easy for people like us, living in a free country, to judge those in Germany, for instance, who "allowed the Holocaust to happen. Yet if any of us were truly there, in Germany, while the Holocaust was taking place, how many of us would *really* raise a voice in opposition, knowing full well that you'd be in the gas chambers right next to the Jews -- and you will have accomplished nothing except getting your wife and kids killed, as well.
It was notoriously difficult to start a resistance movement in Germany, and the few that started were squashed within months because all it took was to recruit the wrong person and it was all over. Even professional infiltrators like the British SAS were rounded up and thrown into camps by the hundreds because of the Gestapo, simple German ingenuity, and that small pro-Nazi element that could be anywhere.
Okay, I'll now stop with my history lesson. Yeah, it's my passion, so I can really run at the mouth talking about the Third Reich and WWII.
Gotta say. I wasn't expecting anyone to actually attempt to justify Nazis.
You just ranted for several more lines didn't actually answer the question.
I've already answered it in several other posts. If you had bothered to read my post instead of dismissing everything I say as a rant -- because you lack the vocabulary, I guess, to even use a synonym once in awhile -- you would have seen that I wasn't TRYING to answer your question.
Why?
Because I already have. Over and over and over and over and over and OVER AGAIN!
And every time I do, guess what ... you simply quote my entire post and respond with a rolling-eye emoticon.
Yeah, and don't even try to deny it or I swear I'll dig up all my old posts and show everyone your response. Wouldn't be at all difficult to do.
So don't sit there and tell me how I'm not answering your question. I gave up even trying. Isn't that what you wanted, anyway?
You're not going to listen to me anyway. Or ANY atheist, for that matter, because you came to this forum puffed up on your own visions of moral and intellectual superiority thinking you were really going to "stick it" to those atheists. YOU, by God, would show them what's what!
But it didn't work out that way ... did it. And now it is YOU who is being schooled in the ways of what's what. And the only way you can deal with it is to dismiss everything as a rant and respond to detailed answers to your questions with rolling eye emoticons. For all I know, you're the "report post" button masher that thinks it would be oh so clever to silence me by using the mods to further your own fascistic agenda.
You are certainly among the most likely suspects.
So no, I didn't answer your question. Instead, I told you why I wasn't going to bother. And why should I?
If I had wasted that much time, you would ... once again, for the nth time ... call what I said a "rant" and roll your eyes at me.
And saying ........nothing ....... else.
But by all means keep on keeping on underestimating me because it just makes my job almost painfully easy.
I've already answered it in several other posts. If you had bothered to read my post instead of dismissing everything I say as a rant -- because you lack the vocabulary, I guess, to even use a synonym once in awhile -- you would have seen that I wasn't TRYING to answer your question.
Oh. Right.
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Why?
Because I already have. Over and over and over and over and over and OVER AGAIN!
And every time I do, guess what ... you simply quote my entire post and respond with a rolling-eye emoticon.
Yeah, and don't even try to deny it or I swear I'll dig up all my old posts and show everyone your response. Wouldn't be at all difficult to do.
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So don't sit there and tell me how I'm not answering your question. I gave up even trying. Isn't that what you wanted, anyway?
You're not going to listen to me anyway. Or ANY atheist, for that matter, because you came to this forum puffed up on your own visions of moral and intellectual superiority thinking you were really going to "stick it" to those atheists. YOU, by God, would show them what's what!
Just answer a few of the basic questions and you'll shut me up.
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But it didn't work out that way ... did it. And now it is YOU who is being schooled in the ways of what's what. And the only way you can deal with it is to dismiss everything as a rant and respond to detailed answers to your questions with rolling eye emoticons. For all I know, you're the "report post" button masher that thinks it would be oh so clever to silence me by using the mods to further your own fascistic agenda.
You are certainly among the most likely suspects.
So no, I didn't answer your question. Instead, I told you why I wasn't going to bother. And why should I?
If I had wasted that much time, you would ... once again, for the nth time ... call what I said a "rant" and roll your eyes at me.
And saying ........nothing ....... else.
But by all means keep on keeping on underestimating me because it just makes my job almost painfully easy.
OK... I will be on the lookout for this type of behavior in Theists on these forums.
I will say that the thread is provocative, however. It was like the Apologetics were sitting around in the living room, enjoying a spot of tea and watching old re-runs of "The Prisoner" with Patrick McGoohan, when Normstad breaks the door down, comes storming in and says...
"The Ark Encounter is losing money AGAIN!!! Nayh Nayh Na Nayh Na... What do you idiots have to say for yourselves NOW...Huh??....
What might one expect, given the cirumstances...?
Well, I will defend myself by saying if the apologists in this forum were not so adamant what a roaring success the Ark Encounter was, and buying all the garbage about that by Ham, some of us, including me, may not be as vigilant on looking at what really is happening there.
Plus the fact that public money was wasted on this monstrosity. Does it affect me personally? No, I don't live in Kentucky, but I certainly don't want my tax dollar being viewed as something that could fund anything similar. That makes it important to point out the truth.
Well, I will defend myself by saying if the apologists in this forum were not so adamant what a roaring success the Ark Encounter was, and buying all the garbage about that by Ham, some of us, including me, may not be as vigilant on looking at what really is happening there.
Plus the fact that public money was wasted on this monstrosity. Does it affect me personally? No, I don't live in Kentucky, but I certainly don't want my tax dollar being viewed as something that could fund anything similar. That makes it important to point out the truth.
The question I have is...why are you guy so hell-bent on seeing the ark fail? Why does it irritate you so much?
Don't answer back that you feel bad for the poor taxpayers! Because our government has a looooooong history of making stupid investments and blowing money. If this was simply that, why aren't you mad about all the other stupid investments?
No...there is just something about this that really sets you guys off. It's really kind of interesting to watch the melt-downs.
Just answer a few of the basic questions and you'll shut me up.
Wow.
Well, you see what you are doing here, not answering claiming that you haven't been answered when you have and showing that it is you who does what you accuse us of doing.
Everyone take note. It is pretty flabbergasting that you take Shirina's even -handed look at Nazi Morality and represent that as an apologetic for it. it is rather remarkable that the Nazis indulged in acts of oppression and violence - because they thought is was for the good of the nation. They had a rather moralistic view of the previous decadence of the 30's and considered themselves upholders of decency and family values - while themselves getting up to all sorts of stuff in secret.
In fact not dissimilar to a lot of authoritarian Dogmas, whether of left or right, religious or not.
Well, you see what you are doing here, not answering claiming that you haven't been answered when you have and showing that it is you who does what you accuse us of doing.
Everyone take note. It is pretty flabbergasting that you take Shirina's even -handed look at Nazi Morality and represent that as an apologetic for it. it is rather remarkable that the Nazis indulged in acts of oppression and violence - because they thought is was for the good of the nation. They had a rather moralistic view of the previous decadence of the 30's and considered themselves upholders of decency and family values - while themselves getting up to all sorts of stuff in secret.
In fact not dissimilar to a lot of authoritarian Dogmas, whether of left or right, religious or not.
Yah. OK.
Still waiting for an answer to WHY it's moral to kill animals, but not humans. Only answer I've gotten is "Well...we decided it was cuz we're SMART!"
And you would have us believe that we think it's ok to kill animals but not people...well...just because we have laws.
Oh who cares what you think. You lost what little credibility you MAY have had with what you said below. Personally I think everyone on the board should just ignore you from now on and never say another word to you. That way you'll get bored eventually and practice your misrepresentation and deceit elsewhere.
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
Gotta say. I wasn't expecting anyone to actually attempt to justify Nazis.
Gotta say, I wasn't expecting anyone to so completely and willfully misrepresent what I said.
If our exchange occurred in a newspaper, for instance, I could easily sue you for libel and slander. You do NOT have the right to twist the meaning of what I said in order to equate me with being a Nazi.
And here, I was trying to be civil when I wrote to you. LOL. I won't make that mistake again.
And for everyone else who is reading:
Remember what I said just earlier today? Remember when I wrote about how those who wear their religions on their sleeves tend to have the most despicable morals?
Well, right here is an excellent example. I mean, this guy pretty much called me a Nazi sympathizer for daring to tell him about how the Holocaust actually played out -- and if Mr. Fundie knew anything about how to be an historian, he would know that you don't deliver historical information with bias, emotion, personal agendas, and value judgments.
And for that, I'm a Nazi sympathizer now.
This is the kind of morality I've come to expect from the extremely devout -- nothing but deceit, lies, and piles of bullshyte so high that not even Noah's Flood could have covered the top.
What's worse is that you pulled this exact same tactic on me once before. I gave you a history lesson, you didn't like how history played out, and then accused me of sympathizing with pedophiles -- or something like that.
I mean, seriously, you obviously can't debate worth a damn -- because they don't teach fundies how to critically think. Therefore, you have to resort to cheap-assed tactics like this.
And I would have reported your post for calling me a Nazi, essentially, but then I wouldn't have the pleasure of calling you to the carpet for being so dishonest -- and using you as an example of what I meant about how the more "Christian" the Christian, the worse their morals.
Thanks for volunteering for that! Even if you didn't know you were.
The question I have is...why are you guy so hell-bent on seeing the ark fail? Why does it irritate you so much?
Don't answer back that you feel bad for the poor taxpayers! Because our government has a looooooong history of making stupid investments and blowing money. If this was simply that, why aren't you mad about all the other stupid investments?
No...there is just something about this that really sets you guys off. It's really kind of interesting to watch the melt-downs.
There are multiple layers in response.
First of all, yes it IS about tax money being used. Government has no business picking winners and losers with subsidies. If it wants to attract business, set up the regulations and laws in a way that all businesses know what they are, and that they are not subject to favoritism. Business likes stability.
Secondly, just the concept of what the Ark Encounter tries to portray is offensive. It is offensive to portray a myth as a truth.
Can myths provide teachings? You bet they can. One Thousand and One Nights has elements of this. So does the Harry Potter series or the books by Jane Auel. The bible can, as can the Greek, Roman and many of the Germanic myths.
That doesn't make them true; allegory and metaphors are an age old manner of getting a point across. The best marketers use stories to promote their products; facts alone do not sell that well, and hence, the myth of religion continues.
Still waiting for an answer to WHY it's moral to kill animals, but not humans. Only answer I've gotten is "Well...we decided it was cuz we're SMART!"
Oh I don't know ... food perhaps? So we don't starve?
And don't hand me any shyte about being a vegan, either, because you can't even do that without a doctor's supervision and, perhaps, special vitamins (I could be wrong about the last part, I'm not sure).
So how would have primitive man done this in, say, the Bible era? Just ate vegetables and nothing else? Yep, they would have croaked because of lousy dietary decisions.
Oh right, and we have four canine teeth for no reason. And, since you believe in God so much, why don't you tell ME why we have those canine teeth? Did God just get done binge-watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer just before creating human beings?
If we weren't "supposed" to eat meat, we wouldn't be eating it. In fact, it is likely that our biology wouldn't be able to process it.
And yet here we are, eating meat as a staple and the main course of just about every meal.
So ... that answers your <<bleep>> question, now you can stop strutting around with no clothes on -- just like a fabled emperor.
Because you never had any to begin with, but now it should be readily apparent.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 09-26-2018 at 01:52 PM..
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What do you idiots have to say for yourselves NOW...Huh??....
