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I think you are missing something. If these people did not log on to their computers, they would still be bothered by religion. From 9/11 to religious bigotry to creationism to the attempt to get more religion into politics, etc.
And it is not just atheists who do the insulting.
There's always going to be some who are displeased with how others live their lives and raise their family i.e. members of NAMBLA etc. and they are not taking no for answer.
There's always going to be some who are displeased with how others live their lives and raise their family i.e. members of NAMBLA etc. and they are not taking no for answer.
Indeed. But I am not talking about simply not liking the other persons position, but actually harming that person (mentally or physically) or the society they live in.
I had to see what NAMBLA was. I wish I had not checked.
And by same kind you mean contradictory. That is why spiritual experiences are not credible evidence, because of something know to science as cognitive bias.
And there is the straw man while you have to ignore everything because you have no evidence for your position.
It's not just a strawman, it's projection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest
I think you stated before that if nothing else the atheist can at least deny theist a 'springboard' for their beliefs...this sometimes may appear as trolling, but it's really denying the theist a springboard.
Well, yes It's like the 'atheist babies' (they cry at Christenings) argument. Tactically, it saves us a lot of grief, but we think it's true (aside the 'trust and learn' instinct that religion exploits as soon as it can). We reckon that the "We have no reason to believe that a god made everything" apologetic is not only essential tactically, but is logically valid. I know, because in the early days (yes, I'm ancient, I know) I can recall some intense debates designed to get a god -concept of ANY kind ...even just the Label...accepted as valid. They would sweat blood over this.
It was actually a poster here who was trying to get a creator - god concept accepted n the grounds that whatever creates must be greater than what is created, who got frustrated that I wasn't meekly giving in and leaped straight to the Bible. This was when i twigged what the 'leap of faith' actually looks like, and solved the puzzle of why some sorta god was so damn' important, and why it is needful to deny that springboard.
Not because the argument is all but lost if we concede that; we can stop 'em dead at "Which god?" No, just that it drives 'em mad.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-25-2018 at 10:27 AM..
Well, yes It's like the 'atheist babies' (they cry at Christenings) argument. Tactically, it saves us a lot of grief, but we think it's true (aside the 'trust and learn' instinct that religion exploits as soon as it can). We reckon that the "We have no reason to believe that a god made everything" apologetic is not only essential tactically, but is logically valid. I know, because in the early days (yes, I'm ancient, I know) I can recall some intense debates designed to get a god -concept of ANY kind ...even just the Label...accepted as valid. They would sweat blood over this.
It was actually a poster here who was trying to get a creator - god concept accepted n the grounds that whatever creates must be greater than what is created, who got frustrated that I wasn't meekly giving in and leaped straight to the Bible. This was when i twigged what the 'leap of faith' actually looks like, and solved the puzzle of why some sorta god was so damn' important, and why it is needful to deny that springboard.
Not because the argument is all but lost if we concede that; we can stop 'em dead at "Which god?" No, just that it drives 'em mad.
There's always going to be some who are displeased with how others live their lives and raise their family i.e. members of NAMBLA etc. and they are not taking no for answer.
You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
This conversation has nothing to do with NAMBLA or anything approaching it. We don't need trumpian hysteria brought into the conversation.
Atheist babies cry when christened? Why the little rebels. I get a kick out of the "Creation/Creator" argument, as if "creation' were not just a word for all that exists. If we call it "Happening" does there have to be a "Happener?"
Well, yes It's like the 'atheist babies' (they cry at Christenings) argument. Tactically, it saves us a lot of grief, but we think it's true (aside the 'trust and learn' instinct that religion exploits as soon as it can). We reckon that the "We have no reason to believe that a god made everything" apologetic is not only essential tactically, but is logically valid. I know, because in the early days (yes, I'm ancient, I know) I can recall some intense debates designed to get a god -concept of ANY kind ...even just the Label...accepted as valid. They would sweat blood over this.
It was actually a poster here who was trying to get a creator - god concept accepted n the grounds that whatever creates must be greater than what is created, who got frustrated that I wasn't meekly giving in and leaped straight to the Bible. This was when i twigged what the 'leap of faith' actually looks like, and solved the puzzle of why some sorta god was so damn' important, and why it is needful to deny that springboard.
Not because the argument is all but lost if we concede that; we can stop 'em dead at "Which god?" No, just that it drives 'em mad.
The fact that someone quits arguing with you is not "proof" that you have won an argument. When you say "which god" you are admitting that you have completely lost the argument to them, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to change the subject by taking it in that religious direction. Especially since you have explained repeatedly in this forum that you understand these people who believe in a mysterious deity which is not part of any specific religion.
The fact that someone quits arguing with you is not "proof" that you have won an argument. When you say "which god" you are admitting that you have completely lost the argument to them, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to change the subject by taking it in that religious direction. Especially since you have explained repeatedly in this forum that you understand these people who believe in a mysterious deity which is not part of any specific religion.
Thank you. You have splendidly explained why we cannot afford to let the First cause argument go, even though it doesn't matter (as you say, because we don't actually care about a possible creator -god). Because Theists will reckon we have lost the argument.
I agree that simply stopping the argument does not mean it was lost (though I wonder then why the theist side seem unable to not have the last Word?) But it is the case as presented that wins, whether the Other side keeps arguing or not. Which is why we can see who is making the better case - which is what matters; not just 'winning'. So even if they keep battling, it is clear when it is a lost cause.
Indeed. But I am not talking about simply not liking the other persons position, but actually harming that person (mentally or physically) or the society they live in.
I had to see what NAMBLA was. I wish I had not checked.
North American Marlon Brando Look Alikes. I saw it on tv. Many of them do look a lot like Marlon Brando
North American Marlon Brando Look Alikes. I saw it on tv. Many of them do look a lot like Marlon Brando
OMG! The poor fellows!
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