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Well, yes It's like the 'atheist babies' (they cry at Christenings) argument. Tactically, it saves us a lot of grief, but we think it's true (aside the 'trust and learn' instinct that religion exploits as soon as it can). We reckon that the "We have no reason to believe that a god made everything" apologetic is not only essential tactically, but is logically valid. I know, because in the early days (yes, I'm ancient, I know) I can recall some intense debates designed to get a god -concept of ANY kind ...even just the Label...accepted as valid. They would sweat blood over this.
It was actually a poster here who was trying to get a creator - god concept accepted n the grounds that whatever creates must be greater than what is created, who got frustrated that I wasn't meekly giving in and leaped straight to the Bible. This was when i twigged what the 'leap of faith' actually looks like, and solved the puzzle of why some sorta god was so damn' important, and why it is needful to deny that springboard.
Not because the argument is all but lost if we concede that; we can stop 'em dead at "Which god?" No, just that it drives 'em mad.
On higher dimensional levels, it's meaningless to say there is only one god.
take out the magic, and how silly are the beliefs?
forgiveness?
trying to be just a little bit better than today than yesterday?
that if you answer to a cause greater than yourself your life may take on some real meaning?
amazing grace? the nonliteral kind?
love thy neighbor?
those beliefs, as expressed by many people, seem like valid beliefs to me.
at some point, tired, one has to separate the junk from the good stuff. A blanket tossed over everything just doesn't make sense.
Denying that we may be part of a larger more complex system is just as silly as a corpse flying. those two blind faith statements are just flat silly beliefs.
so just who's beliefs are we siding with?
Put in magic, and just how silly is believing in flying reindeer? Christians believe that the corpse of Jesus returned to life and flew away. That would violate the laws of physics of course. Not to mention medical science. How did it occur? God can overcome the laws of physics. God has magical powers! Just like Santa.
Just how silly are the following beliefs?
The story of the corpse of Jesus that returns to life and flies off up to heaven; the story of Muhammad riding a flying beast named Al-Baraq up to heaven to visit God; the stopping the rotation of the Earth at a command from Joshua; the story of cleaving the moon in two at a command from Muhammad; the story of Noah and family collecting a mating pair of every species of non aquatic animal from every part of the planet, then containing them in a very large boat and keeping every one of them alive for several months; the story of Jonah riding around in the belly of a large fish for several days; the story in Matthew 27 of hordes of dead people coming up out of their graves and wandering the streets of Jerusalem... represent just a few examples of stories that either occurred as claimed, or are simply silly. The difference between such claims appears to be differentiated only by the indoctrination of one's birth. In other words, one's inclination to subscribe to a belief in magic. Or perhaps new age make believe.
Last edited by Tired of the Nonsense; 10-26-2018 at 01:23 PM..
People are still largely ignorant of the workings of the universe. Especially the materialists who think they understand the workings of the universe.
Some people ARE still largely ignorant of the workings of the universe, I agree. Some people still subscribe to to the ancient practice of make it up and declare it to be true employed by our ancient ancestors. On the other hand, certain other people are busily working out an understanding of the workings of the universe. Those people are putting robots on Mars, and inventing smartphones. And the like.
And the only examples you give of supposedly theist beliefs are silly. You ignore any spiritual beliefs that are modern and rational.
Anyone who believes that:
A. the corpse of Jesus returned to life and flew off up to heaven;
B. the story of Muhammad riding a flying beast named Al-Baraq up to heaven to visit God;
C. the stopping the rotation of the Earth at a command from Joshua;
D. the story of cleaving the moon in two at a command from Muhammad;
E. the story of Noah and family collecting a mating pair of every species of non aquatic animal from every part of the planet, then containing them in a very large boat and keeping every one of them alive for several months;
F. the story of Jonah riding around in the belly of a large fish for several days;
G. the story in Matthew 27 of hordes of dead people coming up out of their graves and wandering the streets of Jerusalem;
are potentially true HAS no claim to beliefs that are modern and rational.
A. the corpse of Jesus returned to life and flew off up to heaven;
B. the story of Muhammad riding a flying beast named Al-Baraq up to heaven to visit God;
C. the stopping the rotation of the Earth at a command from Joshua;
D. the story of cleaving the moon in two at a command from Muhammad;
E. the story of Noah and family collecting a mating pair of every species of non aquatic animal from every part of the planet, then containing them in a very large boat and keeping every one of them alive for several months;
F. the story of Jonah riding around in the belly of a large fish for several days;
G. the story in Matthew 27 of hordes of dead people coming up out of their graves and wandering the streets of Jerusalem;
are potentially true HAS no claim to beliefs that are modern and rational.
According to you. And since you are not god, we don't need to believe you.
Your argument applies to you too. Did you not even consider your argument refutes itself?
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