The confusion about faith (body, differences, meaning, purpose)
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Which makes me think that you are not atheist...as you don't appear to understand WHAT atheism is. No atheist believes that gods might possibly exist. That's why they are atheists, they have no belief in gods. Perhaps you are getting confused with 'believing' and 'knowing'?
No, not if you are atheist (no belief in gods) What we might all acknowledge is that there is no way of knowing - but that isn't the same as believing that gods might exist
So if one does not accept/believe that gods exist, (atheist), why would that same person accept that gods might exist? It is a contradiction. It's a difference between belief and knowledge.
Do you believe in fairies? No.
Do you believe fairies might exist? No. I have no belief in the existence of fairies.
Do you know that they don't exist? No. I don't know that but I have no belief that they do or even might exist.
Are you understanding? If we don't believe/accept that something exists, how can we believe/accept that it might exist? The bottom line is - we don't believe! One either has no belief that gods exist or even might exist, in which case you are atheist or, one believes that god do or might exist which puts you in the theist camp.
We would all fall into the agnostic camp in that it is not possible to know one way or the other but that is a knowledge possession not a belief position. One can claim that one doesn't know but when it comes to belief, you either believe in gods or you don't That's why I keep saying that 'there a'int no middle ground brother'. You either believe or you don't.
The American Atheist website disagrees with you: "To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods."
The American Atheist website disagrees with you: "To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods."
And the standard dictionary definition (Merriam-Webster) is ‘a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods’.
So you are agnostic about my gold plated Porsche 911?
Again, the definition of agnostic is not ‘unsure’, and this is a completely erroneous use of the word. I can’t be atheistic about your gold-plated Porsche either.
its a completely rational default position when we filter everything through the central dogma of "anti-god". Just like jesus dying for our sins is completely rational when we filter it through the central dogma of adam and eve.
Again, the definition of agnostic is not ‘unsure’, and this is a completely erroneous use of the word.
ἀ (a) - without; γνῶσις (gnosis) - knowledge.
You do not know if I have a gold plated Porsche 911 or not. So you are agnostic (without knowledge) on that position. But do you believe I have a gold plated Porsche 911? What about a standard Porsche 911? What about a VW Golf?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy
I can’t be atheistic about your gold-plated Porsche either.
Of course not, as atheism is a position on gods, not knowledge.
Of course not, as atheism is a position on gods, not knowledge.
Actually, both are used as positions relative to God, or no God. Agnosticism is lack of knowledge as it pertains to a god or gods (or anything beyond material phenomena). What you quoted is the root of the word, not its definition - and yes, it’s lack of knowledge. (the ‘a’ before gnostic).
The entire definition of agnostic - ‘a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith or disbelief in god.’
So tell me how that relates to your gold-plated Porsche? Your Porsche is not beyond material phenomena - it is proveable as to whether it exists or not. In addition, the definition of the word is not ‘unsure’. Agnostic is a noun, and it’s used in the same way as Christian, Atheist, etc. to describe someone’s stance as it pertains to a God or Gods - not to disbelief of your gold-plated Porsche.
Last edited by CorporateCowboy; 02-17-2019 at 11:04 AM..
Actually, both are used as positions relative to God, or no God. Agnosticism is lack of knowledge as it pertains to a god or gods (or anything beyond material phenomena). What you quoted is the root of the word, not it’s definition - and yes, it’s lack of knowledge. (the ‘a’ before gnostic).
Agnostic is also used outside of religion. From politics to computers. And do you always lecture Greek speakers on the Greek language?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy
The entire definition of agnostic - ‘a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith or disbelief in god.’
2 : a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something political agnostics
Mirriam Webster, famous for their dictionaries. So not entire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy
So tell me how that relates to your gold-plated Porsche? Your Porsche is not beyond material phenomena - it is proveable as to whether it exists or not.
Then prove it. Wait, you are without knowledge about who I am. So again, do you believe I have a gold plated Porsche 911? If not, why not?
So tell me how that relates to your gold-plated Porsche? Your Porsche is not beyond material phenomena - it is proveable as to whether it exists or not.
You assert that knowledge of a god is unprovable. Not that it is currently unproven, but is actually beyond knowledge.
Isn’t that essentially the same thing as non-existent? If we don’t know, and cannot know, then the thing has no interaction, directly or indirectly, with the material world. If a thing has no interactions with the material world, isn’t that essentially synonymous with non-existent?
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