Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Agnostic is also used outside of religion. From politics to computers. And do you always lecture Greek speakers on the Greek language?
2 : a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something political agnostics
Mirriam Webster, famous for their dictionaries. So not entire.
Then prove it. Wait, you are without knowledge about who I am. So again, do you believe I have a gold plated Porsche 911? If not, why not?
I can prove the entire definition of agnostic (and it has nothing to do with your gold plated Porsche or politics lol). If some people wish to erroneously decide it simply means ‘unsure’, as a few people on this board do, that doesn’t change the definition. But it’s hilarious you are now relating the term to computers and your ‘gold-plated Porsche.’ People use slang and chop apart the English language all the time.
Agnostic (Miriam Webster definition in its entirety)
-1. NOUN, a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; A PERSON WHO CLAIMS NEITHER FAITH NOR DISBELIEF IN A GOD.
You assert that knowledge of a god is unprovable. Not that it is currently unproven, but is actually beyond knowledge.
Isn’t that essentially the same thing as non-existent? If we don’t know, and cannot know, then the thing has no interaction, directly or indirectly, with the material world. If a thing has no interactions with the material world, isn’t that essentially synonymous with non-existent?
Yes, neither end is proveable - because we simply don’t have the means to measure beyond material phenomena. Is it reasonable to assume from this, then, that God doesn’t exist? Absolutely! I was just stating the definition of agnostic.
I do understand what you are saying - and agree with you to a point. I just can’t believe, from a philosophical standpoint, we have all the answers in 2019.
Yes, neither end is proveable - because we simply don’t have the means to measure beyond material phenomena. Is it reasonable to assume from this, then, that God doesn’t exist? Absolutely! I was just stating the definition of agnostic.
I do understand what you are saying - and agree with you to a point. I just can’t believe, from a philosophical standpoint, we have all the answers in 2019.
Being pedantic, you are stating A definition of agnostic. Harry D and I use a different, equally valid definition. You are not wrong, but neither is the use of the word related strictly to knowledge/surety. That one of the things about language. words can be nuanced and hold multiple meanings.
Being pedantic, you are stating A definition of agnostic. Harry D and I use a different, equally valid definition. You are not wrong, but neither is the use of the word related strictly to knowledge/surety. That one of the things about language. words can be nuanced and hold multiple meanings.
Words are used in slang, or erroneously, all of the time - but that doesn’t change a word’s definition. To suggest the term agnostic (a person who does not believe anything beyond material phenomena is proveable’) has anything to do with ‘general uncertainty’ pertaining to politics or a Porsche - is way beyond a nuance. It’s completely butchering the word.
Words cannot have different meanings when it’s in complete conflict with the original meaning. If the definition pertains to lack of knowledge based on the inability to measure beyond material phenomena - how could it also refer to someone who is ‘unsure’ about Harry’s gold plated porsche?
Last edited by CorporateCowboy; 02-17-2019 at 12:21 PM..
That is not accurate. You may not have explicitly said anything about it but your acceptance of a "No God until proven" default IMPLICITLY inserts "No God" into our ignorance of Reality without ANY valid reason to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
Complex, intelligent beings simply do not exist for no reason. Valid enough?
Why do WE complex intelligent beings exist then????
Words are used in slang, or erroneously, all of the time - but that doesn’t change a word’s definition. To suggest the term agnostic (a person who does not believe anything beyond material phenomena is proveable’) has anything to do with ‘general uncertainty’ pertaining to politics or a Porsche - is way beyond a nuance. It’s completely butchering the word.
Words cannot have different meanings when it’s in complete conflict with the original meaning. If the definition pertains to lack of knowledge based on the inability to measure beyond material phenomena - how could it also refer to someone who is ‘unsure’ about Harry’s gold plated porsche?
I'm mostly on board with a lot of your posts, but not so much here.
The meaning of many words evolve, sometimes very gradually over time, others times surprisingly quickly. And ultimately and practically, it doesn't matter what some book says a word means as much as it matters how a person or group actually uses it. You don't think so? That's a big reason why we debate issues, have matters sent to courts, and have differences between people and between nations.
I'm mostly on board with a lot of your posts, but not so much here.
The meaning of many words evolve, sometimes very gradually over time, others times surprisingly quickly. And ultimately and practically, it doesn't matter what some book says a word means as much as it matters how a person or group actually uses it. You don't think so? That's a big reason why we debate issues, have matters sent to courts, and have differences between people and between nations.
Sure, words evolve, that’s how slang is developed. Eventually, some of those words even appear in the dictionary. But that doesn’t change the standard, universal dictionary definition of the word (especially how it pertains in this forum). And in this particular case, the definition a few people wish to ascribe the word, completely conflicts with its universally recognized definition. For what purpose? So someone can ask if my agnosticism applies to his ‘gold plated Porsche’?
If you, or a few people on this forum, wish to alter the word’s meaning (without Merriam Webster), then no one can stop you. But definitions (unlike philosophy or even the law at times) are not open to interpretation - that’s why we have a universally accepted resource like the dictionary. If we all could just decide on our own what words meant (so that it fits our argument) - what a chaotic world it would be! We would never understand each other - we’d all be speaking a different language! To relate it back to this thread - why do some atheists seem to have such a problem with agnostics?
Sure, words evolve, that’s how slang is developed. Eventually, some of those words even appear in the dictionary. But that doesn’t change the standard, universal dictionary definition of the word (especially how it pertains in this forum). And in this particular case, the definition a few people wish to ascribe the word, completely conflicts with its universally recognized definition. For what purpose? So someone can ask if my agnosticism applies to his ‘gold plated Porsche’?
If you, or a few people on this forum, wish to alter the word’s meaning (without Merriam Webster), then no one can stop you. But definitions (unlike philosophy or even the law at times) are not open to interpretation - that’s why we have a universally accepted resource like the dictionary. If we all could just decide on our own what words meant (so that it fits our argument) - what a chaotic world it would be! We would never understand each other - we’d all be speaking a different language! To relate it back to this thread - why do some atheists seem to have such a problem with agnostics?
CC...if you want to get wrapped in dictionary definitions, go right ahead. I'd rather think about what the person is feeling and thinking.
Back when I was a school principal, we had a lot of ESL students, and one day one of our regular teachers asked me how many languages I spoke. I told her -- just one...English. "But I see you talking to all the ESL students and they speak so many different languages". I told her, "I just pay attention and listen".
One summer in Bangkok I was eating in a fast food restaurant, and a young Thai fellow came up and indicated he wanted to sit with me. Not uncommon. They like to practice their English. But this was different because he spoke no English beyond "Hello". Over the course of a half hour, through gestures, body language, and drawing on napkins, I learned which province he was from, which village he was from, that he had just graduated from teacher's college, how old he was, that he had been assigned to a school is the deep South where he was worried about the Muslim unrest and teachers being killed, how many brothers and sisters he had, and much more.
A dictionary didn't help in either of the above situations, yet I had many great conversations and learned what people thought.
And by the way, the dictionary is not "universally accepted". There is no "official" dictionary. Anyone can publish a dictionary, including online. And that's just dope. Of course, I know you won't understand that last sentence because that now common use of "dope" is not in Miriam-Webster.
CC...if you want to get wrapped in dictionary definitions, go right ahead. I'd rather think about what the person is feeling and thinking.
.
I absolutely agree! Debating a dictionary definition is superfluous, that’s my point! It is what it is - right?
I’m in complete agreement about discussing thoughts, beliefs, opinions about religion, atheism and so on - something which I believe is sorely lacking in this forum (and I’ve stated before). So many of the threads are about demanding proof (for which we all agree none exists) and bashing.
Why do WE complex intelligent beings exist then????
Excellent question!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
