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I see we have been "blessed" with yet another nonsensical post. I think I might start counting them.
One.
I'm more impressed that he even knew what the music was than his by his ludicrously crude ploy of picking a chilling film - fantasy scene and saying that's what he thinks atheism is like.
At least when I point to the sack of Constantinople during the fourth crusade and say: "That's what Christianity is like without massive humanist checks on it", I'm talking about what actually happened.
That's without even considering the question oif projection. When A True believer aims all manner of incredible accusations against atheism (aside the ones out of the Bible; that's dogma) and you get a mental image of some crazed killer softly saying 'I'm only doing this because I love you' with this crazed music in the background, I have no trouble in believing that's what Ozzy might do, if his kind of Christianity became the religious, social and political power.
I had an interesting conversation about this yesterday with a friend. He comes from the Baptist tradition, but is very burned out. I think that there are several factors:
• I think Fundamentalists have co-opted the identity of Christianity.
• However, the rigid, doctrinaire, and occasionally baffling positions taken by Fundamentalists and Catholics alike seem increasingly out of touch with the modern world.
• The wholesale flirtation of the religious right in politics has alienated a large number of people who do not see Christianity and conservative politics as one and the same, even contradictory
• The ongoing scandals of some of the most visible religious institutions. When you have the festering sore of a Catholic church not seriously addressing wholesale child molestation or megachurches spending lavish amounts on private jets, it is at odds with Christianity's core messages.
• The ongoing attempts of Christians to legislate their beliefs into law. School prayer, Prohibition, banning sex education, and a host of other agenda.
It's crazy to think any of those things are because of religion.
Crazy.
A few very anti gay Christian missionaries go to Uganda and preach and convince the Christians in that country that gays are a dangerous threat to their country. The Christians, along with fellow anti gay Muslims pass a law that at first placed the death penalty for any homosexual activity which is later changed to a long prison sentence. The American anti gay missionary publicly states that he regrets that Uganda backed down from imposing the death penalty. And you claim that it is crazy to blame a fundamentalist, in the sense I used, for this because most religious people do not support this.
That is my whole point. I have zero problems with the vast majority of religions or religious people. It is the fundamentalist mindset of "my religion is not only right but the only one right and every person must abide by whatever is written in my book (the strictest way I intrepete it) or they shall be severely punished".
I personally have 0roblems with gangs of zealots going around attacking anyone who does not stricktly follow this strict adherence to that religion. That you think I should not call out those who wish to kill gays, throw acid in the face if school girls or even spit and insult elementary school girls all because those perpetrators believe they are defending their religion speaks more about you than it does me. Those attackers are extremists and you won't find extremists whobelieve that their religion is a private matter and should be intrepeted to aid in living not in controlling.
So yes I do blame fundamentalists or extremists or whatever word you feel personally comfortable with. Maybe you think that the girls who had acid thrown in their faces deserved it, maybe you think 8t was about football I don't really care. I never blamed religion, I blamed extremists of the different religions for the actions they actually did.
And no where here or elsewhere have I ever supported the banning of religion nor have I ever stated that religion is all bad. I have stated that I oppose when religion is used as a weapon rather than as a tool. Perhaps you can start thinking what that means and how you can apply it to your own posts and life. There are many very religious posters on this thread that you can learn from.
I had an interesting conversation about this yesterday with a friend. He comes from the Baptist tradition, but is very burned out. I think that there are several factors:
• I think Fundamentalists have co-opted the identity of Christianity.
• However, the rigid, doctrinaire, and occasionally baffling positions taken by Fundamentalists and Catholics alike seem increasingly out of touch with the modern world.
• The wholesale flirtation of the religious right in politics has alienated a large number of people who do not see Christianity and conservative politics as one and the same, even contradictory
• The ongoing scandals of some of the most visible religious institutions. When you have the festering sore of a Catholic church not seriously addressing wholesale child molestation or megachurches spending lavish amounts on private jets, it is at odds with Christianity's core messages.
• The ongoing attempts of Christians to legislate their beliefs into law. School prayer, Prohibition, banning sex education, and a host of other agenda.
Good post. Yes, there are a number of factors that might have driven even theists away from organised religion. It may not be as much in the favour of secularism as we'd like. It may be at least half of the voice that atheism has found on the Internet.
That was never the argument of course, merely that the figures seem to show the mainstream religions at least losing out heavily to no religious affillation - whatever that actually entails.
Why are you even here if you have heard all the arguments before? Looks like a colossal waste of time. Especially if you believe there is nothing beyond this life. The clock is ticking if that is true.
The clock is ticking irrespective of what one believes.
Good post. Yes, there are a number of factors that might have driven even theists away from organised religion. It may not be as much in the favour of secularism as we'd like. It may be at least half of the voice that atheism has found on the Internet.
That was never the argument of course, merely that the figures seem to show the mainstream religions at least losing out heavily to no religious affillation - whatever that actually entails.
You're right. But that's kind of why I raised the first bullet point. There are plenty of traditions within Christianity that are not that way, but get overlooked. I can't tell you how many times I've had someone tell me, "I left the church because...." and then they detail some awful event that happened to them, driven by a rigid, pietistic worldview.
I agree. But there also been times when the nonbelievers have taken over control. We all know the horrors that have resulted.
No we do not. We know what horrors have resulted when power mad dictators have gained control, whether they were atheists or not.
One would think that after the many thousands of times you have been told this, that you would eventually understand that just because these men had noses and were atheists, the fact that they had noses and were atheists had nothing to do with the people who wore pants being power mad dictators.
Read the article. Of course, you'll never admit to being wrong. No atheist ever does.
There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
Your projection will send you to hell, Jeff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
They can never admit when they are wrong. It's like a genetic trait.
But do not worry, Jeff, it looks like you will not be alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
The clock isn't ticking for me. Eternal life doesn't have an expiration date.
It's crazy to think any of those things are because of religion.
Crazy.
It is crazy to pretend they do not.
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