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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Nothing more than pedestal posturing. I don't care if you have 100 degrees. I'll post whatever I think about science any way I please. If I'm wrong, prove it.
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Yeah, this is the standard arrogance of religious fundamentalism. Let's dismiss all the modern experts of the field in favor of whatever primitive notions a gaggle of ancient goatherders from the Bronze Age happened to possess. Not because there is anything wrong with the science of modern experts but because the modern science contradicts the sacred fables.
This country is circling the drain because of this nonsense - I mean, all one has to do is look at the sudden resurgence of flat earth believers. Despite the enormous body of evidence for a spherical earth, these morons want to drag this nation back 3,000 years in terms of scientific knowledge. Couple that with denying evolution, denying the Big Bang, denying climate change, an overall distrust of science based on the perceived primacy of superstition, and a plethora of poisonous conspiracy theories - I dunno. It just makes a person want to give up. The idiotocracy wins.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
But here is a fun game. You got a degree in science well prove it.
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Why? Why should he prove it? In fact, why should anyone be beholden to prove anything at all to you? No amount of proof is good enough. There is no way that you'll ever admit to being wrong.
Perhaps if there was a chance of getting you to admit that you were mistaken, it would be worth the effort. But it isn't.
After all, the entire reason why you think it is such a "fun game" is because you most likely have this plan to find even the slightest error in his proof and use that as a carte blanche denial of his expertise, knowledge, and college degrees. Otherwise you'd have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Trouble is, apologists like yourself do not want to debate anyone with actual scientific credentials because the apologists know they'll get crushed; the idea here is to de-legitimize the scientist, to discredit him, to bring him down to the level of religion and faith.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Cuz personal testimony doesn't count, right?
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Why should it? Whether you had an experience or not, you cannot prove it to another person. Therefore it is useless as evidence. Do you take everyone at their word? No matter how crazy their experience was? Like, for example, alien abductions? Seeing Bigfoot? Having fairies living in their garden? Seeing a ghost train in a ghost tunnel? Talking to Uncle Buck via a ouija board? Well, to us, religious experiences are just as open to skepticism as any of these other personal encounters. Just because it pertains to religion does't give a person a free pass to be taken at face value.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Oh a photo of your degree? How do I know it was not faked? Oh the president of the university endorses it? How do I know you didn't bribe him? Huh? See how far down the rabbit hold you can go trying to reason and demonstrate evidence to your ilk. It's maddening.
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Apologists and fundamentalists are masters at projecting - which is what you're doing right now. If a scientist posted his diplomas as well as his drivers' license, social security card, and a dozen affidavits from his professors, chairman of the science department, the dean of the school, the president of the school, and a number of classmates - not only would you say exactly what you just said about "how do I know this isn't faked" you would also dismiss anything scientific that he said even if the science was air tight and rock solid - using your doubt about his credentials as an excuse to ignore every word he said.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Oh so now we are back to claiming as fact that the Bible is a myth? Thanks for showing again how atheists can't even define atheism correctly. Do you really think lack of evidence proves anything?
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No.
YOU are the one defining atheism incorrectly. Atheism has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not someone thinks a book is true. That would be called abookism or abiblism or some other ridiculous term.
In addition, an atheist can say he believes that some gods are definitely not true - like Yahweh. As an atheist, I say the same thing: That your Bronze Age palistinian wargod Yahweh does not exist. What atheism says is that there is no good evidence that A god exists - any kind of god. So while we can conclusively discount YOUR god as fiction, that doesn't mean we discount every god as fiction. There still may be a god out there somewhere, one that is truly unknowable and doesn't have huge hang-ups about sex and gender issues. But Yahweh ... no. That character is a work of fiction.
Atheists aren't required to believe that *every* religious claim *might* be true. I know apologists and fundamentalists have a massively difficult time with nuanced thinking and being able to categorize things in layers. Rather, everything is black and white to them, everything is, well, everything or nothing, everyone or noone, always or never, pass or fail, you're with us or against us. It sure would be nice to see more complex thought once in awhile. But I always did have too high expectations ...
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
The Bible teaches scientific principles thousands of years before man could figure it out. Like how to prevent the spread of bacteria. Sad that you have to resort to ugly insults like babble. Typical atheist garbage speak.
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No it did NOT ... and speaking of garbage, why anyone should trust anything you say is beyond all comprehension. The Bible had absolutely no advanced wisdom and said NOTHING about the spread of bacteria. Are you referring to a passage in the OT that said to wash ones hands? So what - everyone knew that washing removes dirt and grime. Why do you think the Muslims have the ritual of washing ones hands and feet before entering a Mosque? It is to wash away the impurities.
And if this passage about hand-washing was meant as a scientific message about spreading bacteria, then why did Jesus reverse this information in the New Testament and protest washing hands as some kind of snub against the Pharisees? Hmm? I mean, if hand-washing was meant as some kind of protection from catching a disease, why on earth would Jesus - who also believed diseases were caused by demons, not germs and bacteria - tell everyone to risk getting a disease just to "stick it" to those evil ol' Pharisees?
Or do you mean other scientific information - like how splashing the blood of turtle doves around will cure leprosy? Or maybe you refer to how a pregnant goat who stares at a striped piece of wood will give birth to striped goats? Or perhaps you mean how spiders are insects ... or that bats are birds ... or that whales are fish? Maybe you mean how drinking the ink of a written curse mixed in with the dirt on the floor will cause an abortion? Or maybe it's how the earth sits on four pillars? Maybe that's the scientific revelation we're supposed to get from the Bible.
I could keep going - but I'll just suggest to you: Actually read the Bible you're trying to defend and stop taking the word of professional apologists who inundate you with lies.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Well I know God is real because I have a personal experience with Him so you are going to need a mountain of evidence to convince me that there is another truth out there. Atheists have none.
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That's completely untrue, as well.
My kingdom for some honesty!
See, the honest thing to say is: "Atheists have no evidence that I'm willing to accept. I have had a personal experience, therefore, no amount of evidence - zero - will ever be enough to convince me that Yahweh doesn't exist."
In other words, your mind is as closed as a steel bear trap. Atheists actually *do* have mountains of evidence. But your claim is that we have absolutely no evidence. There goes that binary thinking again, that inability to classify and compartmentalize information into various levels. Instead, you're back to the "all or nothing" mentality. Either atheists have mountains of evidence or they have none at all - and if they had mountains of evidence, I'd be an atheist right now! (At least, that's what you're saying whether you realize it or not.)
In addition, there is not "another" truth out there.
There is only one truth. And despite the mountains of evidence we've laid at your feet, as you said, no amount of evidence will ever convince you. Which is entirely different than the atheist position which says that, should you come up with some good evidence, we would abandon atheism straight away and become believers.
See the difference? Atheists are far more honest in our position than you are - because we're willing to change our minds. Unfortunately for you, the Bible and anecdotal experiences are not good evidence. My father said he had an experience just like you - and he claims to this day that it was Jesus. But when I asked him how he knew it was Jesus, his response was, "Well, who else could it have been?"
In other words, he didn't know it was Jesus. He just assumed it was because he lacked both the imagination and knowledge to consider perhaps it was a different god, a different prophet - or perhaps it wasn't a god or prophet at all. No, it HAD to be Jesus because that was the myth he grew up with.
Why should I take something like that as evidence that Yahweh exists? Because someone had an anomalous experience that even he doesn't understand or know for certain who or what it was? If my father doesn't know what it was and he was the one who had the experience, why should I just assume it was Jesus when I didn't even see or feel whatever it was he was talking about?
That's why personal experiences count for very little - if anything - when it comes to evidence. My father gave a textbook example of the "argument from ignorance" fallacy. He didn't know what else it could've been, so it must've been Jesus! Yet, if he had been born in Saudi Arabia, he'd be going on about Allah. If he had been born in India, he'd be blabbing about Lord Brahma - etc. etc.
YOU are the one coming up short on evidence - again and again and again. You've closed your mind to any other possibilities including the very likely possibility that you're just plain wrong.
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