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There's no excuse to say 30% and you are now defending that.
Apart from that is how graphs work. Normstad just took the highest value to show the decline from it's highest value. So yes, I am defending mathematics. You are just inventing one more pathetic excuse.
And as I demonstrated, if you go back to over 30 years you STILL get a decline.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
The main R&S forum is proof that that atheism is false.
With that logic, the fluff on my left shoe is proof your mother is a crack smoking 97 year old cheerleader with a rubber fetish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
You guys have argued and debated yourselves in a post-apocalyptic zombie world.
Wow, you must live in a weird neighborhood. I see no post-apocalyptic zombie world outside my window.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
You are now desperate and scavenging for Christians anywhere you can find them.
No, that would mean we were going elsewhere to find them. If we are posting on this forum as we usually do, that would mean we are waiting for them to come here.
You see, we have this graph in post 1. You must argue from the data on that graph. Making up excuses (and they are very silly excuses) is just evidence you have no credible arguments.
I don't find people abandoning the faith and taking the road that leads to eternal death to be anything to rejoice about.
I would phrase this differently. Abandoning religion allows people to acknowledge reality and make appropriate decisions. We are all headed to an death, although describing it as “eternal death” is a bit odd. It is simply death.
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There is no hope in atheism. Absolutely none. Your happiness in this life could be snatched away in an instant.
From my point of view, Christianity offers false promises. Death can take any of us in an instant, but the atheist acknowledges it.
The world has never been perfect and never will be perfect. The rise of the nones has not and will not do anything to improve the situation.
Relativism is nonsense and accomplishes nothing.
Human reasoning and rationalism? Well, that could give us medical breakthroughs or nuclear weapons and uncontrollable pollution. Whichever.
If not religion, we'd find some other excuse to go to war, which are really fought for land and resources more than anything. The 20th century, the deadliest, was proof that no religion is needed to blow things up.
Moderator cut: Politics
I'd rather just go to church.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 04-11-2019 at 07:50 AM..
Reason: No political discussions in R&S
So, Jeff, explain something to us. Maybe I'm a bit slow.
How does going from 30% to 22% for evangelicals equal an increase? Even new math could not get you there. How????
I never claimed the number was increasing. It has just remained steady for the last 20 years which completely flies in the face of the claim that we are a dying breed.
It is ridiculous to compare against numbers from the 70s. Hey why stop there? Go back to the 1800s when the nation was probably 80% evangelical and then claim we are dropping, right? The point is talking about current or recent trends and my article shows that there are been virtually no drop in the last 20 years. The 1970s was a completely different culture. Generations have passed. It is meaningless to compare against the number in the 70s. For one thing, you still had blue laws back then. People didn't have to work on Sunday hence more people had free time to go to church. When people are part of a church, they don't identity as "none"
The Bible study pic that made you so giddy is most likely due to the fact that people are so tired and stressed from the work week that they don't feel up to committing to a Wednesday night meeting. That doesn't mean they are becoming atheist. Your side still remains a tiny minority of the population.
The world has never been perfect and never will be perfect. The rise of the nones has not and will not do anything to improve the situation.
So we should just stop trying then? Go back to religious rule where things were much worse?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub
Relativism is nonsense and accomplishes nothing.
Human reasoning and rationalism? Well, that could give us medical breakthroughs or nuclear weapons and uncontrollable pollution. Whichever.
So we should be irrational instead? That's a pretty dumb thing to say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub
If not religion, we'd find some other excuse to go to war, which are really fought for land and resources more than anything. The 20th century, the deadliest, was proof that no religion is needed to blow things up.
We rarely fight wars over religion anymore. It is mainly over money, resources, and control. The "wars" fought because of religion are in every day life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub
Moderator cut: Politics
Isn't every group a "voting block" of some sort?
I think you mistake "values" with basic human dignity. Although, the fact that a lot of you religious folks seem to think only certain people deserve basic human dignity, I guess that is your "values". It is hardly "forcing your values" on someone by saying people should be able to go to the Dr. without having to take out a loan, go deeply into debt, or pay thousands in insurance premiums every year for substandard benefits. If you aren't willing to pay some taxes to do this (which would also mean NOT paying your insurance premiums btw), then you clearly don't give a rat's behind about others, and aren't a very good "Christian" anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sub
I'd rather just go to church.
Yea, well some of us would rather do something productive.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 04-11-2019 at 07:52 AM..
I never claimed the number was increasing. It has just remained steady for the last 20 years which completely flies in the face of the claim that we are a dying breed.
It is ridiculous to compare against numbers from the 70s. Hey why stop there? Go back to the 1800s when the nation was probably 80% evangelical and then claim we are dropping, right? The point is talking about current or recent trends and my article shows that there are been virtually no drop in the last 20 years. The 1970s was a completely different culture. Generations have passed. It is meaningless to compare against the number in the 70s. For one thing, you still had blue laws back then. People didn't have to work on Sunday hence more people had free time to go to church. When people are part of a church, they don't identity as "none"
The Bible study pic that made you so giddy is most likely due to the fact that people are so tired and stressed from the work week that they don't feel up to committing to a Wednesday night meeting. That doesn't mean they are becoming atheist. Your side still remains a tiny minority of the population.
Two points. Evangelicals are not dropping off or not by much. Nobody said they were. It is the mainstream that appears to be losing to the Nones.
Second, it is recognised that far from all of the Nones are atheist. The majority may identify as 'agnostic' and irreligious theist. We hope they will move on to atheist, but just the irreligion is fine.
Thirdly (I'm an atheist, not a mathematician) it is recognised that the decline has been going on for a long time, and has sometimes been reversed. We also can't claim that it is the sort of chat we do here that is springing the irreligion, but we can't dismiss the surge of Nonentity about the same time we goddless bastards got a Voice on the Internet as mere coincidence.
So to summ up, Jeff, fiddle the facts whichever way you like, bottom line is, looks like we are winning. Roll on the figures in a couple of years. And the votes.
I never claimed the number was increasing. It has just remained steady for the last 20 years which completely flies in the face of the claim that we are a dying breed.
It is ridiculous to compare against numbers from the 70s. Hey why stop there? Go back to the 1800s when the nation was probably 80% evangelical and then claim we are dropping, right? The point is talking about current or recent trends and my article shows that there are been virtually no drop in the last 20 years. The 1970s was a completely different culture. Generations have passed. It is meaningless to compare against the number in the 70s. For one thing, you still had blue laws back then. People didn't have to work on Sunday hence more people had free time to go to church. When people are part of a church, they don't identity as "none"
The Bible study pic that made you so giddy is most likely due to the fact that people are so tired and stressed from the work week that they don't feel up to committing to a Wednesday night meeting. That doesn't mean they are becoming atheist. Your side still remains a tiny minority of the population.
No, look at the graph, thete has been a downward trend for the last 20 years. Yes it is a gradual downward trend but downward it is. Drawing a trend line over the last 20 years would show that I believe. So the article you linked to bragged that mainstream protestants were decreasing faster, does chanel the numbers. And full parking lots in some churches in some parts of your country doesn't mean that church attendance is not declining. I can easily go to ghost towns and towns of declining population in nearby Montana but would be wrong to say that the population of the States is dropping, not when the stats say different.
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