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I want to thank you for being reasonable with respect to the motives and character of atheists. We are not a pack if corrupt, evil things as Jeff seems to think, we are simply people who do not agree with theists on the question of god. Thanks for understanding that, and being willing to speak up.
Again, this thread tore along while I was pounding the pillow, but agreed. Whether Warden and I agree or disagree, he is always respectful, and thereby earns and deserves respect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
Of course.
I'm just not sure what the point of this R&S subforum is. Why even create a subforum which eventually dwindles away to nothing? It's like a depressing zombie world.
The point of the subdorum is a place where religion (and secularism ) can be discussed openly (within ToS) What has happened was hardly predictable; atheists, having the better case seem to have driven Theist apologists away. It may have left us without much to do and have turned it into something like an annexe to A/A. We may wish that we got more more Christians (etc.) to debate with. We rather enjoy debating with you and Jeff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
There are dozens of Christian only forums on the Internet. They are not hard to find.
Careful Mensa such a suggestion will elicit "Oh, so Christians are not allowed to post here? You want to Ban free speech?"
He's done it before.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-05-2019 at 09:06 AM..
If that's your job then you fail miserably at it. My links always back up my arguments.
They are intended to, but (as we demonstrate) they don't. And you may claim that we fail miserably at it, but we reckon that we do rather well. And the result? What is not apparently denied is that the atheists seem to have run short of Theist opponents in a forum that is open to all. That doesn't look like a 'miserable Faitl' for us, does it?
In your view it is a personal perception. From my standpoint it is the Holy Spirit of God. Again, one's RELATIONSHIP with Jesus impacts how they view others in a more kindly fashion. When the "book" is the answer, it never speaks with a single voice.
Conservative Christians ignore the counter voices of prophets in the OT. The prophets all attempted to explain what God is like. But they told different stories.
Here is an analogy:
There are various answers to the question "Where do babies come from?" and someone might say "The stork brings them," and another might say when Mommy and Daddy love each other very much a baby starts to grow in Mommy's tummy," and still another might say "the male contributes the sperm which he secretes during sexual intercourse to fertilize the egg which the woman provides and in nine months the embryo matures into a fetus and a child is born."
Two of these answers might be considered "true," and one of them is obviously a story intended to symbolize the reality without actually addressing any of the mechanics. Yet all of them are an attempt to answer the question about where babies come from.
This is similar to what we find in the Bible when it comes to the question of what God is like. Some voices give us the stork version with great symbolism and hyperbole. Some voices give us an approximation of the answer. Other voices may give us more detailed and specific answers that align more closely with what atheists and agnostics view as reality.
For those who have met Jesus, He is the reality. He is the "exact representation" of God the Father. He is the "Word made flesh who dwelt among us." Yet for those who insist upon holding to the rigid inerrancy of the OT Scriptures, they will always be kept from fully embracing the clearest and most accurate portrayal of who God really is---He is Jesus. As long as the tarnished testimony of Moses (supposedly) to describe God as one who command His people to slaughter infants and toddlers without showing compassion then we will forever stand in opposition to Jesus who showed us a Father who loves children, cares for His enemies, and shows compassion to the marginalized.
The Bible never speaks of itself as "God with us," but it does speak of Jesus that way. We either agree with Jesus about who God is or we side with those OT prophets who were not perfect, not flawless, and not "God with us in the flesh."
The jeffs of the world prefer a book to Jesus because its something they can wave in people's faces and it becomes a kind of Scepter of the Spiritual world. But for Jesus followers NOTHING is absolute. Yet I maintain that kindness and love is a universal language understood by all if not accepted!!!
The world of Jesus is not about winning in a battle with you. It is about inviting you to discover who He is and letting His Holy Spirit guide you to your own truth.
But I think perhaps your mindset is no different than jeff's. The Bible has to be all "true" as you define true or it cannot have any truth that can make your life better. Believing "all" the Bible as jeff does has turned him into a not very likable young man, because the Bible usurps the position that God gave to Jesus. Believing none of the Bible because one part is not "true" has led you to be just as callous with regard to things you haven't yet understood. You are attempting to "win" as much as jeff.
But it is only by losing that one wins.
My POV is more that if it is not all true, then why is it given any weight at all? After all, it either is or is not a message from a Divine All-Powerful Being; it isn't both simultaneously.
Even though your personal beliefs are not entirely based on the Bible, they are still somewhat based on the Bible, are they not? Otherwise, how would you even know the terms "Jesus" and "Holy Spirit"?
In a previous post, you mentioned "meeting" Jesus. Would you be willing to describe one way that might happen? In other words, how would one recognize such an encounter?
Seems like quite the hostile environment against Christianity. 90% of the posts are anti-Christian in nature.
Then why do you read them and post here? And why are you surprised that there are people against Christianity? You know they exist, and you know the reasons why. You can post in the Christianity forum where the existence of God is not allowed to be questioned.
I've dealt with atheists dominating the forums for many years. This is nothing new. I just can't stand rude arrogant people and your posts (which are mostly garbage) comes off with such tones. My tolerance eventually runs thin.
His posts are neither rude nor arrogant. You are bringing those things into the reading yourself.
They are intended to, but (as we demonstrate) they don't. And you may claim that we fail miserably at it, but we reckon that we do rather well. And the result? What is not apparently denied is that the atheists seem to have run short of Theist opponents in a forum that is open to all. That doesn't look like a 'miserable Faitl' for us, does it?
Nothing more than the typical knee jerk response. OF course you have to say they failed. Otherwise your house of cards falls down if there is even an inkling that I could be right and my faith is the real deal.
What is particularly aggravating is when the atheist/skeptic demands evidence. I go to the effort to provide this only to have it rejected immediately without consideration. This happened in the other thread when the atheist immediately went to work to trash my source without even bothering to fairly look at the evidence first.
You may have run off theists, but not for the reasons you imply. Perhaps if atheists tried to be a little more friendly, we would want to stay instead of leaving or having to block people.
Neither do I think atheists are saints!! But then again---neither are theists. The thing that is most blatantly disgusting is to lump a group of people into being all bad or all good based on belief or unbelief. Not even all fundamentalists are like that. My sister is a fundamentalist and has a good heart despite her spiritual paralysis.
And you owe me no thanks. The greatest compliment I ever got was from my son when he was a young teenager. In a Sunday School class the teacher, a deacon and a friend, was trying to explain how people treat other people differently based on their social, financial, or political status. My son spoke up to the teacher and held his hand out steady. He said, "Not my dad. He treats everyone he meets exactly the same." It was perhaps the greatest compliment I ever received because it meant he perceived my character from my actions.
Now someone can lose my respect, but no one has to earn it. If theists wish for atheists to listen to what they say, then they should take the first step and listen to atheists. And I don't listen to disagree, I listen to think more carefully. I believe God loves you as an unbeliever EQUALLY as much as He loves me as a believer.
Nones are gaining rapidly because there are far too few "thoughtful" Christians. Too many of us think it is our job to "protect" God from attack. Since I know Him as the Almighty in my life, I know there is nothing I can do to protect God. He didn't even protect Himself when He walked among us.
And winning by losing is something atheists don't get. Then again, very, very few "believers" get it either.
Change of subject: I'm getting ready to move from Colorado back east to Tennessee where I've never lived before. Someone told me that the area of Tennessee we are moving into gets more rain than the Pacific NW---EXCEPT it gets it over fewer days. I may get to see some downpours of "biblical" proportions! I remember as a H.S. student in Vancouver that the January we arrived it rained (or mostly misted) for 92 straight days. After H.S. I went into the MC (Vietnam era) and got stationed on Okinawa first where we promptly had 131 straight days of rain. My senior NCO told me Okinawa had two rainy seasons and they were both six months long!
Anyway, all that to say Washington State along the coast is one of the great beauties of North America, and I wish I could afford to move there. Yet I suspect Tennessee is in much more need of a reasonable theist than is Washington State! You lucky atheist, you! Both for living there and not having to worry about me show up!
Not sure how you can go "back" to where you've never lived before, , but good luck on the move. A lifelong friend of mine moved to Tennessee (from New Jersey) just outside Nashville about five years ago, and she really likes it.
But yes, your reasonable theism is probably sorely needed.
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) can be discussed openly (within ToS) What has happened was hardly predictable; atheists, having the better case seem to have driven Theist apologists away. It may have left us without much to do and have turned it into something like an annexe to A/A. We may wish that we got more more Christians (etc.) to debate with. We rather enjoy debating with you and Jeff. 
such a suggestion will elicit "Oh, so Christians are not allowed to post here? You want to Ban free speech?"
I remember as a H.S. student in Vancouver that the January we arrived it rained (or mostly misted) for 92 straight days. After H.S. I went into the MC (Vietnam era) and got stationed on Okinawa first where we promptly had 131 straight days of rain. My senior NCO told me Okinawa had two rainy seasons and they were both six months long! 
