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Actually, you are not talking about Buddhism. Buddha left NO written works to ground what you are talking about in. Neither did Jesus. What you talking about is his followers opinions on what he meant by his teaching. Ask any forensic expert, they WILL tell you that eyewitnesses always have the worst recollections about events, they witnessed.
More specifically, you are talking about thousands years later opinions of folks from different cultures, about opinions of folks from different cultures about their opinions about opinions on opinions and so on, all the way to Mahanama, Koudanna, Bhaddiya, Vappa and Asvajita's opinions on their perception of his teaching.
yawn...
What part of what i am talking about do you object to?
Buddhism is a religion.
Buddhists worship.
Worship is revering the words, teaching, and knowledge and spirit of Gautama Buddha
Worship is Holding aspects of the teachings and the relics as sacred.
Worship is the offering of flowers, lights, fruits, sweets to the deity
Worship is bulding temples, gathering, chanting sacred texts.
True that many texts were written several years after his death. That does not mean a religion cannot form around him
There is is no record of what said so we dont know that he said do not worship me or that there is no self.We dont know
Nisaragata wrote his tretise a long time after he died.
Please share what of these are problematic to you. I am open to a discussion.
Oh yes, Buddhism is not atheism.
What part of what i am talking about do you object to?
Buddhism is a religion.
Buddhists worship.
Worship is revering the words, teaching, and knowledge and spirit of Gautama Buddha
Worship is Holding aspects of the teachings and the relics as sacred.
Worship is the offering of flowers, lights, fruits, sweets to the deity
Worship is bulding temples, gathering, chanting sacred texts.
True that many texts were written several years after his death. That does not mean a religion cannot form around him
There is is no record of what said so we dont know that he said do not worship me or that there is no self.We dont know
Nisaragata wrote his tretise a long time after he died.
Please share what of these are problematic to you. I am open to a discussion.
Oh yes, Buddhism is not atheism.
Not "several years"...about 300. Until then it was by rote memory over many generations.
I know why you are here.
But I'm not allowed to mention it anymore.
Can't say I am heartbroken by this news...
We all know why you think we're all here, and we have been hearing about it for a long time now, so don't feel as if you haven't been heard. The ongoing repetition doesn't serve any purpose in any case. Other than to annoy, and I don't think that's entirely your intention.
We all know why you think we're all here, and we have been hearing about it for a long time now, so don't feel as if you haven't been heard. The ongoing repetition doesn't serve any purpose in any case. Other than to annoy, and I don't think that's entirely your intention.
If I tripled or quadrupled my output I might be a be to keep up with the "Problem of Evil", "Theists/The Religious are harmful", "Cheer Downturn in Religious interests"....and the epic "Show Objective Evidence/Proof for that".
If I tripled or quadrupled my output I might be a be to keep up with the "Problem of Evil", "Theists/The Religious are harmful", "Cheer Downturn in Religious interests"....and the epic "Show Objective Evidence/Proof for that".
Tripling or quadrupling pointless repetition doesn't accomplish anything more either. Just more annoyance is all...
That said, you do quite well with your output as it is. No need for more. No point in repeating yourself to such an extent.
Not "several years"...about 300. Until then it was by rote memory over many generations.
Moderator cut: Rude remarks deleted.
By rote is how all knowledge was passed on to the generations, orally and by memorizing. Poetry came before prose, because it is easier to memorize things that rhyme. Rote memory is valuable. Memorizing the multiplication table is like possessing currency.
Last edited by mensaguy; 07-09-2022 at 10:05 AM..
Reason: as noted.
By rote is how all knowledge was passed on to the generations, orally and by memorizing. Poetry came before prose, because it is easier to memorize things that rhyme. Rote memory is valuable. Memorizing the multiplication table is like possessing currency.
"All knowledge?"
"Knowledge: facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject."
Having worked in the education field at the end of my working career, learning is a subject I came to appreciate even more than before. There are different ways to learn. They all have their place and level of effectiveness...
"When rote memorization is applied as the main focus of learning, it is not considered higher-level thought or critical thinking."
This is an informative read if further interested. No doubt Phet is well versed on all this too...
"Knowledge: facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject."
Having worked in the education field at the end of my working career, learning is a subject I came to appreciate even more than before. There are different ways to learn. They all have their place and level of effectiveness...
"When rote memorization is applied as the main focus of learning, it is not considered higher-level thought or critical thinking."
This is an informative read if further interested. No doubt Phet is well versed on all this too...
Yes. And there is a time and place for rote memorization. There's just a lot of other important learning modes that go well beyond rote memorization.
The point, which was missed by the other poster, is that nothing that Buddha said was written down for around 300 years (give or take). Anyone who has ever played that parlor game where something is whispered from person to person right on down the line, knows what that means.
My grandmother on my father's side of the family was VERY catholic. And before anybody misquotes me, she was a wonderful wife to my grandfather, a wonderful mother to my father and his siblings, a wonderful grandmother, and well-liked by everyone. If I had said to her, "Grandma, could you say the catholic creed, she'd have rattled that off without hesitation. But if I had then said, "And now, can you explain it to me", I'm quite sure she would have pretty drawn a blank. There's a lot in many religions that is little more than ritual repetition. She was appalled when the Mass changed to English, she preferred the Latin...even though she had no knowledge of Latin. I certainly saw it when I would chant and meditate with the Thai Theravada monks. Fortunately for me, they had a book that a layman (in this case, anyone who didn't speak Pali) could follow along in English. But even then, that repetition night after night after night (and multiple times during the day) held little value for me. What was valuable to me was the discussion that followed.
If I tripled or quadrupled my output I might be a be to keep up with the "Problem of Evil", "Theists/The Religious are harmful", "Cheer Downturn in Religious interests"....and the epic "Show Objective Evidence/Proof for that".
The problem is that a number of so-called believers on this forum exhibit the very behavior I've been warning people about for the last 10 years.
In fact, it has gotten 110% worse since I started posting here. It is no longer about having discussions about religion. Nope. The fact that every conversation now is merely defending our "right" to be here pretty much proves beyond a shadow that "Theists/Religious are harmful" (as you put it, not me). Like I said, I've been saying that for a long time. And now it's finally happening. This is one of those things I would've been happy to have been proven wrong about .... truly. But no. Some places are finally waking up to the dangers now that that religious fascism in this country has overturned Roe v. Wade. They're already looking for their next target - same sex marriage, most likely. By 2030, I suspect that interracial couples will be banned and kids, regardless of their own personal beliefs, will be forced to recite a state-sanctioned prayer led by a teacher - whose own personal beliefs will also be disregarded. Children will be forced to pray to and ultimately worship a State God. But who cares as long as you can pretend it's Yahweh or Jehovah or Allah, right?
The behavior on this forum by the "believing" segment of the population has been anything but Christ-like. Mainly because it's not the words of Jesus they're really interested in, but the words of the mean and nasty Yahweh. It's no wonder why SOME people emphatically worship an authoritarian, fascistic, dictatorial god - the kind of god that didn't even let Adam or Eve pick the color of the grass. Nope. Everything is god's way. No vote. No appeals. No arguments. No democracy. "Do as I say, dammit! And I literally mean dammit because that's what will happen to you! Muahaha!" So those that follow such a god turn right around and inflict the same kind of anti-freedom, anti-democratic, and intolerant way of life onto the rest of the population. "You there, you atheist you! You can't post in OUR forum!" Maybe we'll see the 1950s rekindled, only instead of "white" and "colored" waterfountains, it will instead be "believers" and "non-believers" waterfountains. And lunch counters. And bathrooms. And elevators. And everything else. Oh I know, I'm exaggerating now. And you're probably right. But only a little. At any rate, back to this forum ...
Every time I come here... and I do mean EVERY ... SINGLE ... TIME ... I'm not being hyperbolic in the least. Every time I come here, all I ever do is defend our "right" to be here. Any posts I write about religion or spirituality gets hand-waved away with some snide-ass little comment. There are no refutations. No rebutals. No discussions.
I honestly cannot even remember the last time anyone has even bothered addressing the things I actually say in my posts. Because there are more snowflakes on this forum than there are in Russia during the winter.
The fact that, here I am again, addressing this issue, only proves my point. We're not debating some point of religion or spirituality. Noooo. Because that doesn't happen anymore. Now it's all about certain fascists wanting the whole forum to themselves. That way once the atheists are out of the way, the Christians and the one or two Hindus on this forum can start going at it - because everyone knows that Christians think Hinduism is a fake religion with fake gods that don't exist. I'm sure some even think Hinduism is Satanic. Oh, but who cares about that.
We atheists merely think that gods don't exist. Christians think your religion and your gods are flat-out evil. But apparently that's okay. That doesn't bother the Hindus. And i don't even attack Hinduism and yet the Hindus on this board defend the Christians against the posts I write which dismantle Christanity. Because those who think your religion is evil and Satanic are far better than those who don't say anything about Hinduism at all.
Right? Isn't that how it all works?
Once we're gone. Once the Hindus are driven out by the hating Christians - because that will happen next - the Christians will then fall upon each other, which each denomination getting into each other's faces ... or maybe they won't. No. Maybe they'll just quote each others' entire post and then write, "Another rant" as the only comment. Or just leave an "eye rolling" emoticon.
So you have one sect of Christians in that corner talking about how great and awesome their god is while some other little sect of Christians does the same in some other corner - in a slightly different way. Some stupid disgreement on how to pray or what food to have on Christmas or whether women can wear make-up. It will just get dumber and dumber as time goes on.
Yeah I know - you'll all say, "Nuh uh ... it won't happen like that!" Okay. Maybe you're right. It may not happen *exactly* the way I described it. But it WILL happen. I might poke my head in this miserable and unfriendly place and laugh my head off once all the atheists and non-believers are gone, once you start sharing your stink eye with each other and not just us ... and I'll laugh ... and laugh ... and laugh ...
Yes. And there is a time and place for rote memorization. There's just a lot of other important learning modes that go well beyond rote memorization.
The point, which was missed by the other poster, is that nothing that Buddha said was written down for around 300 years (give or take). Anyone who has ever played that parlor game where something is whispered from person to person right on down the line, knows what that means.
My grandmother on my father's side of the family was VERY catholic. And before anybody misquotes me, she was a wonderful wife to my grandfather, a wonderful mother to my father and his siblings, a wonderful grandmother, and well-liked by everyone. If I had said to her, "Grandma, could you say the catholic creed, she'd have rattled that off without hesitation. But if I had then said, "And now, can you explain it to me", I'm quite sure she would have pretty drawn a blank. There's a lot in many religions that is little more than ritual repetition. She was appalled when the Mass changed to English, she preferred the Latin...even though she had no knowledge of Latin. I certainly saw it when I would chant and meditate with the Thai Theravada monks. Fortunately for me, they had a book that a layman (in this case, anyone who didn't speak Pali) could follow along in English. But even then, that repetition night after night after night (and multiple times during the day) held little value for me. What was valuable to me was the discussion that followed.
The vedas are so old they are said to have been blown in the wind. It was always “heard”. The mantras were not just memorized they were recited in a a precise way to ensure not a single word mispronounced and thus change the meaning, or lost. Literacy was rare, only among the elite. As it was in Buddha’s life time. He spoke to his followers, and from historical accounts, he spoke a lot. To judge ancient times from 2022 is sign of deep ignorance and lack of awareness.
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