Gary Olsen's "Master Path" - anybody familiar? (mythology, divorce, theology)

[Ben Seeley]

Hi again everyone,

I thought the forum would send me email updates, but after the first post after my last one, it stopped sending updates. When I logged back in today it suddenly sent me another update, of the very last message. Does anyone know if I am supposed to stay logged in in order to get updates, or what the issue may be?

Anyway, my apologies for being late. I won't be able to promptly address everything that's been said since my last post, but I can address at least some things right away.

allan1015:
"Thank you Carma and Ben, especially Ben for doing what my temperament or style of communicating didn't allow for. You continue to amaze and teach me."

This is tremendously kind of you, Allan (and I agree about Carma, too). I'm honored.

"Another was simply to see what truths about MP I could pull. I am about to do my 2cd initiation, and this was the last in a long process of investigation."

Very sensible of you... I'm glad you're carrying out the investigation suggested for new students .

"In the end two main observations:
Money - I like the learning I am getting for what I am paying. For $400 bucks a year or so, I am learning stuff that after years of spiritual searching I find finally seem to put all the pieces together. I've spent much more for a less quality learning experience.
MP is not ripping me off in terms of $, I am getting value for my $ so to speak."

I guess some believe what MysticPhD wrote- "if it costs money . . . it has NOTHING to do with spirituality"

The idea that everything involved with spirituality should be free is one that perplexes me. Once a path grows to a size larger than one person can manage entirely on their own, some form of cost to others is going to be involved. I suppose if Sri Gary had utilized many more people like end_of_faith, everything could have been financially free for the rest of us, but that is still costing someone something- energy, time, skill, etc.

Now, in the literal sense, I agree with MysticPhD. The spirituality itself is free. I don't pay anybody to do my spiritual exercises, nor for my spiritual highs. But the guidance which I like to utilize which exists in print and audio form, and attending events in large hotels? That part costs money. And I'm happy to pay it. Anybody who doesn't want to pay doesn't have to.

As for the rest of MysticPhD's comment:
"No true spiritual master would deny access to his/her guidance because of finances . ... it is completely incongruent with the claimed spiritual development."

It is my understanding that those without the means to pay can get a waiver. As I described before, without even asking for it, I was the beneficiary of an 80% reduction in my dues.

end_of_faith
"First, I would like to say that I appreciated, and was very moved by what you shared regarding the chela/pilot who died. He was a special soul, and it was in honoring him that we connected and shared. For that, I am grateful."

I'm glad .

"here are a few quotes by allan on this forum, and it seems clear that he is referencing you as a friend, and in his last post he seems to be referencing who I am assuming might be your mom...."

Carma is shakey1, not my mother.

"I don't know many strangers who I know their mom's name. And he speaks as though he has had real life experience in being around you."

Yep, I doubt he knows my mother's name . Otherwise, Allan and I have interacted slightly on another forum, and that's it.

"That’s also an interesting disclaimer you state before taking it upon yourself to discredit the experience of all who express opposing viewpoint to yours or Gary’s."

I recall writing that your experience is true, by definition. I can't dispute your experience, and I have no criticisms of you as a person.

Back to what you wrote. I'll quote myself, assuming this is the disclaimer which you're referring to- "You are all certainly welcome to your own opinions, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest if someone very strongly does not want to be a member of MasterPath. In fact, I'm quite glad when that is the case- as Jesus purportedly said: "Be either hot or cold, but if you are lukewarm I will spew you from my mouth". If you're not hot, I'm glad you're cold. It will help you make progress with whatever other path in life you've chosen."

The whole point is to support your path. If it is something other than MasterPath, so be it. If your path is to attempt to discredit MasterPath, so be it. Why would I support you attempting to discredit MasterPath? The same reason I'd support any other whole-hearted action, by myself or anyone else- we learn quickest that way. We get to the end of the road the fastest when this happens. I believe you will most speedily discover the pros and cons of what you're doing, by doing it. "Act to know", as Sri Gary says. You're acting, and I admire it. In fact, I admire you more, in this area, than I admire myself.

"Sorry, but I have difficulty believing what you say is the “whole truth.” Being aware of the “chela grapevine” that runs through MP, it is very unlikely that simple happenstance allowed you to “stumble upon this forum.” I also do not believe in “coincidence.” Everything happens for a reason…isn’t that a “part” of the “whole truth” you claim to know so well?"

I arrived at this forum by googling [masterpath temecula house], since a friend of a chela friend of mine was asking about the rumors she had read online that Sri Gary owned a $3million house. I was trying to track the rumor down, since in regards to this rumor Sri Gary had mentioned at a seminar that his rent is $600 a month. I wonder if there even are any homes that expensive in the desert around Temecula.

Anyway, considering you didn't know who I was, and I don't know who you are, despite our overlapping times on MasterPath, perhaps the chela grapevine isn't all-encompassing .

"It is also very presumptuous and arrogant for you to assume that you know the depth of intensity of another’s devotion and love for truth, or the journey they’ve traveled."

Where did I ever claim I did? For what it's worth, I would guess you must be capable of intense devotion, to have done all the seva you did. You may have been more devoted than I've ever been. You may still be, for all I know, in your way.

"And by that, I mean regardless if they have ever even heard of MP or not! MasterPath is not the culmination of the soul’s overall journey in consciousness. Not even close."

I agree with you, and Sri Gary agrees with you. The outer form of the path is not the culmination of soul's journey, as Sri Gary has repeatedly emphasized.

"Your interpretation and application of that spiritual principle points to an attitude of “spiritual superiority” that you are on the path of truth, while those who reject MP are “cold”. That spiritual principle has absolutely nothing to do with belonging to an “organized religious following” like MasterPath."

You can call yourself "hot", if you like, and I can be the "cold" one. It just refers to being very committed- whether it's in pursuing MasterPath, or going in another direction.

By the way, I never claimed to possess the "whole truth", and hope I never do so. I think my mind will never have and never will possess the whole truth, and I don't think I will ever be able to completely communicate soul's truth. But I think the quest for the whole truth is very valuable.

And this is why, in general, from my own personal perspective, I think it's much more valuable for me to listen to what you have to say, than for me to say things I already know. I gain a lot more pieces of the puzzle from hearing your real, honest experience, than by rehashing and reassessing my own experience.

As far as my skepticism about your claims is concerned, it just comes from the fact that we're often hearing only one side of the story, and I think important information is missing. But it doesn't mean you shouldn't share it- it's still a piece of the puzzle, at a minimum.

It's true that I've disputed some things where I had every reason to suspect what you said was wrong or hearsay, and I turned out to be at least partly wrong. On the other hand, I think I've contributed some valuable information you left out.

I don't want to shut anyone down, as I think you may have felt I'm trying to do. Please, share away. To quote myself again- "I just want to defend the truth, so everyone can form their judgments from a true basis. One of the few things we are asked to do is defend the truth. And by that, I understand it to mean the whole truth, from the seemingly good to the seemingly bad. I'm happy to hear the genuine truth others are aware of, as well." You would be one of those "others"- everyone is included in that, not just chelas.

"And didn’t Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi, Sawan, Soami, Lao Tzu, Hafiz, Nanak, Kabir, St. Francis of Assisi, Meister Eckhart, plus so many more truly advanced spiritual souls actually make a difference in the world? What difference does Gary make in the world?"

He's made a profound difference in my life, and in the lives of other chelas I know. And from that there's a great ripple effect. Bu the first part- the difference made in my life- is the most important part, to me.

"Has he contributed to effecting positive social change on any level, or does his real success lie in the fact that he has remained under the radar of close scrutiny by the public?"

Well, as Sri Gary has repeatedly stated, he's not here to make the world a better place- he's described it as perfectly being what it's meant to be. It seems silly to criticize someone for not doing what they said they weren't trying to do.

His stated mission is to get souls off the wheel of reincarnation, to never return to this universe. Improving the prison (lovely though that may be) would be a distraction from that mission, don't you think?

"Here’s a thought that I often ponder: how is it that a path claiming 3 God-Realized Souls, at least 2 Self-Realized souls (maybe they have 3 now) plus who knows how many other “highly evolved souls" they are touting on their roster of devotees (that is not an insult to devotees)… but how is it that a path with that much supposed “spiritual realization of God’s Essence” flowing through the organization serves so very few souls, a little over one thousand followers. That just doesn’t make much sense, logically or spiritually."

Given how many restrictions are placed on converting new members, this doesn't surprise me. If a path can't have children as devotees, psychic practices aren't allowed, proselytizing is discouraged, there are restrictions on posting flyers, there's little advertisement, there's a mandatory 2 year investigation, no hard-core addicts are supposed to join, you don't have an ashram or commune or any churches, there is little socializing among the membership, the guru sometimes recommends people leave or try other paths instead, etc.- all of this puts quite a crimp on the membership numbers.

Anyway, most of the teachers you previously cited did not have all that many students in their own era. The paths generally became large after the founder died. And who knows how many great teachers had paths which ultimately died out, or were never popular in their own lifetime.

"1. Again, Ben, I’m not sure where you “get your information” but Gary did not drive a Honda in 2000."

Hm, perhaps I was pointed to the wrong car. Or perhaps it was a rental. I suppose if you'd care to share what you knew, you could.

For what it's worth, a few days ago I was listening to a tape from 2008 a few days ago, where Sri Gary said he's been driving the same car for the past "10 or 11 years". So whatever it was, it sounds like he's put some miles in on it. Realistically, though, how he spends his money is not something I'm worried about. It looks like Allan and others established roughly what he and Joy earn, and how they spend it is their business, not mine.

Regarding the issue of air travel, I also recently heard Sri Gary on another tape from 2008 saying he bought tickets from two airlines, just to make sure he made it to the seminar on time. This would suggest to me he probably still travels commercially, at least some of the time.

"3.Well, this response certainly clears up the inaccuracy of the numbers you listed. I guess you answer the question I posed to Allan: you aren’t too concerned with providing factual information, and yet, you are here to “clear up inaccuracies and false impressions.”"

I listed that number as an approximate guess. I wish I could have given a precise number, but I couldn't, so I shared my best guess. I felt it was a reasonable conjecture based on the number of students attending physically, and the fact that many chelas attend online or on the phone lines, and the fact there are chelas overseas.

As long as it is appropriate to do so, I'll share as much accurate information as I can. Though, in general I'm not too keen to get into the personal lives of Sri Gary and others, because I think they deserve some privacy, too. Only if they were abusing someone else- from their own actions, not by what their students decide to do on their own- in a really obvious way, would I think their private lives were important and worth talking about publicly.

Also, all the stuff about outer details, at least when it comes to my experience of MasterPath, misses the whole point of what MasterPath intends to be about. The focus of MasterPath has overwhelmingly been on the student's inner experience. If MasterPath was a very outer-focused path, it would make more sense to me to fixate on those details. But that's just not the role I've been asked by Sri Gary to give it in my life, nor what I've seen in the lives of chelas I know reasonably well. As Dennis said, "He got me there", and that's the part that matters to me.

I understand if you and others want to focus on the outer details- cars, plane rides, etc.; particularly when in your case you have a great deal more outer experiences to go on. But, just to be honest, it won't have much sway with me. Of course you don't participate here just for my benefit, so please carry on- I just don't want you to be disappointed if I'm nonplussed by a lot of what you have to say. It doesn't mean I think it's not an important experience- for you, and for those who think it matters- but it's not crucially important to me.

As for why I've so far mostly focused on the outer details- outer details are often the only absolute facts one can discuss. I almost never think about the outer details, and it means little to me. But if I went in the other direction, talking mostly about all the utterly unique feelings, insights, dreams, experiences, etc., that I've had with MasterPath (and which I have not been able to replicate from other sources, including my own best efforts)- well, what I said about that could easily be disputed as too subjective, abstract, or it would be something others couldn't relate to.

deepcynic:
"Tithing is voluntary, not a prerequisite of participation."

Participation in MasterPath is voluntary. And Sri Gary has recommended other Light and Sound paths for those for whom MasterPath is not a good fit. It is my understanding that those paths don't require dues, though they have what I would consider to be more onerous requirements in other areas of one's life.

By the way, I really appreciate the forthrightness of your nickname. Thank you.

allan1015:
"I tend to think the truth is so big, that things that look contradictory are in fact not - when you shift to the proper/larger perspective. None of them are completely false, all have some truth."

Very well said . We've all got our piece of the elephant, as the Sikh story goes .

After all this serious discussion, I have a humorous story to share, on the topic of "strong points of view".

In 2004 I was having tea in the professor's lounge of Trinity College at the University of Cambridge. I was with a maths professor (my friend), and a professor of biology. Both of them were atheists. Then we were joined by Dr. Brian Josephson, who won the Nobel Prize in physics a while back. After Dr. Josephson left, I was expressing my admiration for his achievements. And the biologist said, "Yes. But it's quite a shame. He's gone quite barmy since then.". I asked him what he meant, and he said, "Well, you know, he's started researching all that New Age nonsense".

I was quite impressed by this experience. If a Nobel Prize winner could be called barmy, by a colleague no less, while he was doing research which was in his own field of expertise- well, nobody's safe from judgment, from any direction. I think we would benefit by accepting the fact that some people will be skeptical (or believers) and name-callers, even if "they ought to know better".

[deepcynic]

Wow Ben Seeley,

That is quite the response, lots of flowery drivel to continue to rationalize the scam that is MP!

You are correct to say "Participation in MasterPath is voluntary." but once you decide to follow it, it DOES cost money. Money for plagiarized books and other writings, money for seminars and other things. I choose not to fall for Gary's nonsense so it cost me nothing, but anyone that does choose it must pay. There is a big difference between that and voluntary contributions.

Plus, I have done some research and I am not convinced that all the money is accounted for as required under the law. Even if it was, it is exorbitant considering the content and DOES provide Gary and his closest minions with a cushy life. That is not the way of a true spiritual path.

I am sure many are impressed with your gratuitous name dropping in your little story at the end, but they are the same sheep that buy Gary's bullcrap.

The truth will come out, and I for one cannot wait for MP to be exposed!

[MysticPhD]

Don't bother Ben . . . Gary is not remotely spiritual . . . let alone a guru. Proselytizing for him just makes you complicit. Anyone who BUYS his scam is a pigeon and mark of the first order.

[deepcynic]

To end_of_faith...

I am sorry that you are saying good-bye, your posts show that you have experienced the kind of pain that MP and Gary can inflict on folks.

I applaud you for trying to expose the fraud that you seem to know so much about. I wish you well in the healing process that you seem to need.

I do think that you are a bit too kind to the folks that are defending this outrageous debacle called MasterPath, but it is likely that you can be nothing but a good soul. Something they, and Gary should learn from, but they won't. The defenders cannot see the truth that you so painfully came to know, and Gary and his inner circle value easy income over spirituality and truth.

Speaking of which, Ben Seeley says he does not know the whole truth and then later says he is defending that truth. What? He is deluded or just can't write.

But, I digress...

You helped inspire me to post here, and to dig into this abomination of a 'path'. Good luck to you!

I will carry on, to warn naive people away from Gary and MP, because it is the right thing to do.

[allan1015]

Hello, I came back today to specifically read a post by formerchela where he describes the 'harm' done by MP. I have been extremely busy these past weeks, which is just to say that I've not read past the one post I wanted to respond to. So perhaps these points have been discussed already.

Firstly, Id like to try and clarify my frame of mind. If someone feels that a spiritual master, or even a highly evolved person wouldn’t eat meat – that’s fine. I don’t agree and I can explain why I don’t agree and we can both go on having explained our thinking. So if you feel Gary isn’t a ‘true’ master or even spiritually aware, because he might have eaten meat in his past, or may even now, that’s fine. You can even claim that because he eats meat he is a fraud. Thats all fine.

Where we start to diverge is when people like deepcynic tell me how wrong, stupid, deluded I am because I don’t agree. Especially when they consistently offer nothing but sound bytes and bigoted judgments. That is nothing more then them trying to force their standards, their beliefs, on another.

We also will disagree when you take your eating meat point and stretch that out to proof that MP is Harmfull and Destructive. At least for me I find a huge difference between your views on a true master and claiming something is harmful or destructive.

The same goes with the ‘arguments’ about membership dues versus donations. If you feel dues are non spiritual, and indicate a false path. That’s fine. I don’t agree and if anyone is interested we can share thoughts on the subject. This may be a reason why MP isn’t your cup of tea. That cool, my objective is not recruitment or defending. However, I can explain why I don’t agree with that ‘yardstick’.

However, again, telling me I am ignorant, blind, brainwashed, incapable of logial thought because I disagree is a nonstarter. Branding MP as immoral, harmful, destructive because it don’t agree with your view is also a non starter.

If you don’t agree with MP because you don’t agree with Gurus, guru lead paths, and all that – say so, be honest. Don’t single out MP for faults you would find in hundreds of other paths, the belief systems of millions of others.

In any case, as to the post about the ‘harm’ caused by MP two things come to mind.

1 - None of the Harm was specific to MP or Gary. They are the same ‘harms’ that would come out of any Light & Sound path, and I would venture to say any Guru lead path.

Actually the ‘harm’ illustrated by FormerCheala seemed to be one of emotional cau8se, like the harm that comes with disenchantment, when one beliefs in something and then finds fault and falls away from it.

2 - A second point is the entire post about harm was devoid of responsibility, of ones own personal involvement, faults.

Providing examples of this is risky because I’ll just sound mean and uncaring to those that want to avoid personal responsibility and blame others. But I’ll venture one example;

During your 2 year evaluation period, which you seem to have stretched into 5 years, you made a personal choice to donate large sums of money. You choose this on your own and one can only venture what your motivation was. To curry favor, to pave your way, perhaps others. But MP didn’t ask you to, the teachings are pretty much devoid of asking for donations, there is no pate/hat passed around. You chose. Yet now that MP has fallen out of your favor, you now call that exploitation? What an utter lack fo personal responsibility to try and blame MP for that, in my view. As best I can tell you might have been trying to exploit MP and now blame that on them.


So in the end, it is obvious that spiritual teachings and personalities can mix in a way that can cause emotional turmoil to the follower. However, nothing in the post points to anything specific ro unique to MP/Gary in this area, and nothing in the post pointed out recognition and emotional honesty about FormerChela’s own contribution to their angst and pain.


All in all there was again a preponderance of desire to blame MP, even when your proofs conflict with themselves. Like this:

If MP stops taking your money, stops stringing you along - they are bad
If MP continues to take your money - they are exploitive - they are bad.

MP is if anything is about thinking for oneself, it is about personal responsibility. Its about taking ownership of my life. It is not about sucking up to some guy to curry favor and blessings. It is not about being coddled and placated. There is no cult, no hierarchy, no inner circle. There is just me, my inner experience, and to some degree Gary as a teacher. In fact I am using Gary as a stepping stone, if he gets some use out of me, that’s fine. If he makes $150-$200K a year, so what? He makes as much as me and I could care less.

MP is not a welfare program. It requires work, commitment, time, patience etc. You cant ‘buy’ your way to personal salvation, not with money. You can buy it with devotion, sincerity, daily practice and living the life. But the idea of ‘blessing’ from Sri Gary is well – amazing. Sri Gary should not be doing anything to me, I expact God to work though me, not do things to me.

"When you really believe Gary is god incarnate, what he says can have a profound impact on the psyche."

Dude, you continue to show incomplete understanding of the L&S teachings. WE ARE ALL GOD INCARNATE - Every one of us. Gary is not different then you or me in this regard. You sound more like a Groupie than a Cheala.

What has a profound affect on my psyche is the idea, and a taste of the realization of my/our true identity. That I AM GOD Incarnate. The fact that Gary, as a man, is aware of, realized of this true self, while in human form is the main difference.

The people that post against Gurus by saying I don’t need anyone else, don’t realize how close to truth they are. I agree with them more then I don’t. But the difference is subtle and I don’t see the point in discussing.

I can't imagine a worse feeling than wanting truth and God, but feeling damned and rejected, helpless and alone,

Yeah that does suck, though lets not exaggerate it’s the worst possible feeling we can have as humans. The desire for something, something you can almost taste but evades and alludes any permenant experience. I've that desire and that experience. I WANT IT NOW, but then realize its going to be years of work, study, the slow, steady raising of my consciousness - It sucks seeing myself as the donkey with the dangling carrot in front of me It sucks realizing I can’t just flip a switch, it sucks realizing its not welfare and I have to step up to the plate

And sure feeling damned, rejected, and alone - those can all suck as well. Of course that’s your own mind, those are your own issues to work through - and I have them to, I have periods of being unsure, of doubt and all that. We all do, don’t we? Feelings of not being worthy, self doubt etc etc etc. But how on earth is that MPs fault? Do you always blame others in your life for your feelings?

OK, on to other things

>>>After Allen pointed out my misperception of the tax forms,

I want to be clear, I pointed out your quick judgment, readiness to find fault, sloppy work etc – this is much more to then point the calling it your misperception. It speaks to issues with credibility, intent, etc.

Enough for now. Ill read the other posts since this one and see where that leaves me.

[allan1015]

Originally Posted by rememberingyou

"...what kind of arrogance is it that presumes to know what anyone else means by what they don't say..."

Does this make any sense at all to anyone?

Sure does.

Originally Posted by rememberingyou

Of course no one presumes to know what anyone means by what they DON'T say

Perhaps in the real world, not in this one. I've had folks like deepcynic 'fill in the blanks' , put words in my mouth, presume to know what I meant between my words, hell they have even presumed to know why I hadn't been posting or was absent.

So where do you get off saying that such behavior that shakes was observing doesn't happen here?

You sound like a friggen MP plant to me.

Actually she sounds more like a chela, a young student, then anyone from an MP 'home office' (by young I dont mean age). All I mean is that I think its both conjecture and a bit of ignorance on your part to guess what an MP Plant would sound like (by ignorant I just mean lack of knowledge)

To be honest the very idea of MP Plants, someone being charted by Sri Gary to come to discussion forum and actively represent MP is pretty absurd to me. Your much more likely to get one us very independent chelas to act on our own.

What did you mean by an MP Plant?

[SoulPatriot]

Here is what I know:

When I came on "the Path" in 1993, Gary was boasting that the dues were only 15 dollars and going down. I watched them rise over the years as the chela body grew. So much so, that as of 2005 Masterpath has a 3.5 million dollar surplus in savings. Please log onto guidestar and review the tax returns. I did.

When I came on "the Path" in 1993, Gary proclaimed that "you must be in the physical body to achieve God realization". Since then he has ammended this spiritual law to read, "after you become self-realized you leave the body because it cannot handle the vibration" Hmmm....

When I came...(you get the point), Gary proclaimed that after achieving self-realization you won't have to come back. now he has amended that to once you reach the third eye.

Lets see....Bush is a visionary! well that speaks for itself.

Can anyone say "The Masters Global Cause"? When I came on "the Path", Gary said we do not do advertising...its attraction not promotion...Global CAUSE...sounds like promotion to me. One on Group..give me a break!

Since Gary has placed himself with so many other Masters in his Anami's Living Promise, I am sure that the other Master's would approve of his selling photographs of himself, tapes, books & dvd's. The photo's read completely cultish in the chelas homes. It's really bizarre and kinda creepy if you think about it. I recently had a friend over that was tripped out by all the photos of Gary..on the bridge, reading an initiates report (right), looking stern, lovable grandpa, on vacation in Mexico and ALP. Pullease. Its out of control. All costy a hefty sum.

Does anyone remember the "Introduction to Masterpath" video where all the questions were scripted and the chelas sat in the audience acting like they were new and interested, Can you say POSER? Evrey time it was shown I cringed but swept it under the rug because I had a dream with him and he must be real. All followers on paths with false gurus have dream experiences. Ask anyone from Eckenkar if they have seen their false Master on the inner.

He has suggested that the chelas dont get married until self-realization ( like he did) really gary? are you self-realized?...this is an example of him subtly robbing a devoted chela of their chance for Love. I know a couple of chelas that quote that one all the time.

Then there is the "Garbage Dump". What an evolved thing to call this beautiful planet and lower creation. He creates an atmosphere of disdain for this world and our lives in it. Everything is about the master....trust the master....If anything happens, rely on the master (excuse me, we are the Master...not you Gary).Talk about giving your power away...since the last seminar Saturday night meeting was about that. He says its about you while he masticates your soul energy any way he can. He is completely unavailable on the outer and creates an atmosphere of fear and loathing.

I.E/ Bird Flu. He spoke of bodies piled up on the streets. He gave us until the end of the summer to be prepared. He used the words imminent and probable to the point that he would gamble on it in Vegas. 90% chance that it will happen. 4 month plan...2 year plan...pdf's from the office, chelas moving and storing water bottles umder their beds, buying solar panels, boxes of masks, supplements, and food that was never eaten. How many of you chelas have oodles of food that was never eaten?

By the way Fear and imminent danger is one way cult leaders keep their followers disempowered and under their control. In fact masterpath meets 11 of the 15 possible requirements for a cult...google it...you can take the cult test yourself. Talk about fear tactics. 6th initiation book. Quote.."Please be very watchful for any signs or psychic flashes of now being ready to leave the Master. The true Master is yet to be found, and to side with the ego or subtle ego in this aspect can set one back many lifetimes...an action that is met with terrible remorse and heartache later on". Please....talk about dangling the carrot. The poor 7ths, remember how he chastised them at the February seninar '09'. I imagine that the inner master will always be just out of reach...even though in the early days the 5th initiate had arrived there.

It is my understanding that master's are great humanitarians that show tremendous compassion and caring for the world(garbage dump). What has gary done? he gets a fat 80,000 + salary a year, as does Joy, when all of his expenses and housing are paid for. He uses this money for a 4 month vacation every year in the South Pacific( not with Joy, from what I understand). he plays golf and probably, after the last regional on the Upia, smokes weed all day long. I know a chela that kept over a pound of weed in his freezer for the "Master".

He stopped darshan at the seminars, He stopped satsangs with Joy, all the while taking more money for less service. You have been hoodwinked by a Master con-man. What does he really do? We know from the blatant plagairism from the Sant Mat books that he does not write.

Look at Bono and what he has done for humanity. He has helped to erradicate Aids and hunger in Africa. He is just a rock star with a message of Love. Seems to me he is way more a Master than gary could ever hope to be. Where is the Love?

And the chelas walk around thinking it's almost over, I'm leaving the garbage dump. Think again my friends. We are here for more than ourselves. We are here to Love ALL. We are here to be truth, to help the blind, to feed the poor. We are all saints and the truest way to live is to give. Wake up! Throw off the shackels of "im evolved and leaving" illusion. Evolved you may be....but as the great Dennis once said, "You will not leave until you fall in love with the very place you are trying to leave" Dennis, maybe its time to start a Path. You are right on buddy. Love you.

You know, when you add it all up...It smells like a CULT. I have recently left the path. I don't care who stays or goes. I am just typing my experience.

There is more...

Talk soon Lovers.

[deepcynic]

Right on, SoulPatriot!

Thank you for giving some of the specifics that I have been withholding, and some that I do not have the experience to give.

Folks like allan ask for such specifics but watch how he will defer, deflect and deny when they actually are proffered.

My role is to plant the seed, you and others are better gardeners and will water and feed it till it grows to the point that any rational person will see what is right in front of their face.

Thanks to you, end_of_faith, MysticPhd and all the others that can see so clearly how MP is just another 'easy money' scam.

[deepcynic]

So allan,

Hypothetically, if there was a self appointed guru that:

plagiarizes writings and then charges for them
reprints them in different forms and charges for them again
basically requires his followers to buy them
uses the money for a quite comfortable life
uses the money for cushy vacations
manipulates his followers
deceives his followers
berates followers that leave
exaggerates simple viruses to scare his followers
smokes cigarettes
smokes pot (while telling his followers that it is not consistent higher enlightenment)
and says that this is only true Path...

Would you actually believe this person to be a true guru? Yes or No.

Remember, this is hypothetical, I just want your opinion...

Or, any others that want to answer the question.

[allan1015]

Originally Posted by end_of_faith

Allan .. presents that “hearsay” as though it is evidence of irrefutable truth.

Ok, here we go again. Some accusation that makes no sense and seems like a double standard.

How is it I present my view as irrefutable and you don't?

I talked to people that were at the meeting, actually we talked about this that same Saturday night in June 06. You talk to people and report their experience, how is your information any less heresy then mine?

Is your point one of statistics? Your sample set is larger then my sample set, therefor your proof and extrapolations are more authentic

Aside from this double standard you set, lets get to the 'hardcore facts.

The hardcore facts are:

- Neither of was there and both of us are dealing with the facts as second hand

- Gary discussed pandemics, bird flu at that time, and suggested people prepare for these kind of events.

- MP produced a checklist for preparing for such events. That checklist is stillavailable today at the MP site. Its the same kind of basic information you can find out in most survival sites. 6 months of food per person, water, etc.

The other hardcore fact is that different people read into this in different ways. Some took it as an immediate prophecy and others took it as a practical advice to be prepared.

The people I spoke to heard it as warning, not a prophecy. You spoke to others who took it more as immediate prophecy.

Are we aligned with hardcore facts right now?

I find it very amusing that you and Allan deny these truthful accounts as having no merit or value.

I deny nothing about these reports, I agree and understand that some people read much more into this then others.

Some people did extreme things, others did a sensible thing and stocked their basements, others didn't do anything.

So?

Oh, and other fact - MP and Gary gained nothing from this activity. MP didn't sell survival kits, didn't buy up peoples mortgages, didn't drive up membership, donations, etc etc.

Gary just spoke about pandemics again, at last months seminar. I heard the entire thing. Did you? What do your sources report about this latest discussion?

So come on now, lets deal with facts. Lets stop pretending your more credible and authentic then I am.

In any case what is the point of this entire discussion?

My summary, Gary discussed being prepared for not so pleasant future, some folks over reacted, others didn't. It wasn't manipulation for gain or control. Overall it wasn't his shining moment and he learned from it. As last month he was very clear that this was not a prophecy.

I do know that from your posts you have extrapolated allot from these facts, you have extrapolated tons about Gary's character, his intent, etc. Those are not facts, those are opinions - so if you find me denying that - cool but lets not pretend otherwise.

I wait in earnest for your factual based discussion of the whole point of this.