DeepCynic
I refer to your posts as bigoted because from my perspective they simply seem to fit the definition
Quote:
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A bigot is a person who is intolerant of or takes offense to the opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding attitude or mindset. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term to describe a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices, especially when these views are either challenged, or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable.
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As I am experiencing things this definition is pretty descriptive of your's and others behaviors/tactics. While you highlight the justice and humanity of your 'side', the tactics way you are going about this are reflective of bigotry, religious extremist and I sense a tendency towards a sorta mob psychology, highly emotional banter, as I understand that term.
Of course that is my opinion, though I think anyone looking at the content of your arguments, open minded, would come to that conclusion. Anyway, that is why I called you a bigot, but I should have said that it was bigoted behavior.
-What would I apologize for? To whom?
I don’t see how your being right or wrong in the end, makes a bit of difference about your behavior. I don't see the ends justifying the means here, do you? Being correct about something, isn't grounds for being a bigot, is it?
-About your speculation when I don’t respond in a timely fashions
I see a few times you have chosen to claim some kind of knowledge about why I've not responded - like I am afraid or over whelmed by the truth of your argument. ‘He’s probably not responded because..’ The simple point is that I find it kinda foolish to be taking advantage of that to claim some kind of victory for your negative and prejudiced barbs. I would note that the quality and level of conversation here don't require that much time to respond to. If one try too stick to facts and bypass the negative stuff, there isn't much left.
End_of_Faith
I guess that for me it’s not a slam dunk what your history was with Sri Gary and MP. You act if you should be believed and taken for granted just because you make this claim. You also seem to claim some kind of superiority over me because of your longer involvement with this one specific man, correct?
I do also believe you claimed you’ve been at this longer, in past lives, along with other people here. And I should shut up and give way to your superior knowledge. I will give way to the superior case, facts, etc, but take you based on self claimed credibility – can’t do that.
I can I just believe you when your credibility takes hits when you have made multiple claims about dark insider knowledge that turns out not to be hidden, special, nor all that dark.
Then there is the scope of your ‘claims’ and truths. You are claiming intimate insider knowledge over multiple years of a man and organization that is as you say deeply corrupt and harmful. One would think that as a whistle blower, so deeply positioned, and with an organization so corrupt you would have some petty damaging and hard proofs.
Yet what we have, a summary of your posts, is basically charges of bad policies, speculation on behaviors, and emotional arguments.
One of your most damaging was about who read initiates monthly reports, and you claim a view of hidden corrupt behaviors that I and others I’ve talked to don’t not agree with. Of course your tactic in dealing with it is to attack me, instead of trying to deal with the fact that both truths may exist.
Many of your points get into almost theological discussion about the ‘proper’ behavior of a Guru. How loving, how cruel, how divine, how human, etc. Should money be involved etc. These may be interesting discussions but I don’t see where you can justify your view by claiming spiritual superiority and clearer thinking.
Most of your points, issues and concerns have a personal aspect to them. Like any other relationship issue, there is always at least two sides. I can’t find myself seeing your opinions as anything but slanted in this way.
I also can find many other deeper emotional and even spiritual reasons why you could not find MP or Gary what you expected or need, and even be repulsed – while at the same time others can find MP and Gary exactly what they need and have different perspectives on Sri Gary’s actions then yours.
So it makes it a difficult situation to sift through, and then you complicate it with the attacking, demeaning, emotionally reactive.
And then bottom line to all of this is my personal experience, internally, in my life, of what 3 years of study and spiritual practice has done for me, the positive impacts on life, family, etc.
--Should Money be involved in spiritual endeavors
I find your ‘position’ that if its ‘truly’ spiritual that money isn’t involved to be juvenile, new agey and basically seated in the past. Your response:
Read your history Allan. Study true mystics.
And this
It’s the ancient wisdom and truth of all truly enlightened and spiritually-minded individuals. Heard of Ghandi. Read the Path of the Masters by Julian Johnson.
Again, these are just your opinions of what a ‘Master’ should look like, what organizations are ‘appropriate’ around them, etc. You are welcomed to all of your ancient wisdom and feel free to follow practices meant for ancient forms of spirituality. Harkin back to your romantic past of gurus living on the mountain, I personally think times are a changing. I believe spirituality evolves, god evolves, what’s the right form of practice evolves.
And before you go on some rant of how these are MP views, please go check up on Ken Wilber, and themes like Evolutionary Enlightenment. Read up on aurobindo and others about evolution. The point not being that your accusations that my views are somehow limited to MP exclusiveness is again, wrong.
--Go deeper in your research Allan, beyond the crap MP is selling.
That is my point – I have, I am ‘beyond’ just MP. In fact what I like so much about MP is that it fits with all of these other views I have, views that represent leading edge, post modern insights into spirituality. Which supports my perspective that you are the one rooted in the past and that while you are claiming some form of superiority over me, I see just the opposite.
Lastly, this isn’t MP selling the idea of chelas/students helping to financially support an organization. MP is JUST like thousands and thousands of other spiritually/religious organizations. You seem to be basically be attacking the practices of hundreds of millions, if not billions of people across the world when you make this assertion about money. Making this an attack/failure of just MP is beyond any kind of rational foundation.
-Do you really buy … That people should pay money for their spiritual freedom, liberation, and salvation?
Aside from the manipulative phrasing, yes I see nothing wrong with dues, donations, tithing, I see no issue with devotion, of giving of my time or other resources, to support the organization. I make no distinction from monthly dues then I do a yearly week long festival where followers are supposed to give. I make no distinction in dues and tithing. I see no issue with a spiritual organization in today’s western world looking for forms of support and income.
And I still find your claim that such flows of money are indicative of a false guru and corrupt organization, to be juvenile and silly. But of course that is my opinion.
-You are kept in this locked vacuum of striving for something that is always beyond your reach.
How so? MP keeps me I a locked vacuum for something I cant reach? How so? Have you found a spiritual path that delivers? What is it you claim I am striving for?
-Remember Allan, you can only reflect the attainment of your teacher.
Is this a new Age sound byte you found somewhere? Is it true? How do you know? Is it not possible one can exceed their teacher?
What exactly is it you are measuring when you say attainment? There are many ‘lines’ of human development, I think I read that upwards of 20 lines are common in different branches of knowledge. Cognitive development, morals, physical, spiritual, emotional maturity, etc etc. So when you say I can only reflect the attainment of my teacher, do you mean in all, or any of these lines? For example is it possible for a student to be more intellectually advanced then a teacher?
So perhaps you mean I can only reflect the spiritual attainment of my teacher? I don’t think I agree, but even if I did yeah so? Is there a basis for this belief? One cannot meet or even outgrow a teacher?
What is it you mean by spiritual attainment in the first place?
-And based on your reasoning skills, it’s clear who your teacher is.
Can you define my reasoning skills? So far you seem to define my skills by how much I agree or disagree with you. You’ve presented less reasoned arguments then you have emotional ones.
-Your brain has been affected by what you believe to be true regarding MasterPath and Gary Olsen.
Heh? Was that supposed to be an example of reasoning skills? By brain I’ve got to assume you mean my beliefs have been affected. You don’t actually mean my brain chemistry/structure physically ahs been affected?
So in short your saying my beliefs, my worldview has been ‘affected’ by what I believe to be true in my experiences and studies in life? Yeah. –so?? Haven’t everyone’s? Aren’t your beliefs affected by that which you ‘believe’ to be true of MP and many other things?
I am not sure I understand the point of such generalizations. It still seems as if you are claiming some superior, truer, clearer and overall better perspective, thinking skills and intellect and level of spiritual awakening then mine.
Prove it. I mean you can bluster and demean and have all the sympathy for me, as if you were somehow better, but bluster aside, where’s the beef? If the foundation of your position that I am brainwashed, intellectual inept, and spiritually devolved compared to you – so prove it.
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