Hi all,
I'm the chela referenced and excerpted by allan1015 in this post-
//www.city-data.com/forum/7695640-post31.html (Hi Allan, by the way. Thanks for the kind things you said about me, even though we've never met in person
. It was also nice to learn a bit more about what you do for a living.) Incidentally, I found this forum when looking for something else, I was not directed to this forum by anyone.
There are a few things, in skimming through this thread, I'd like to clear up about MasterPath. You are all certainly welcome to your own opinions, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest if someone very strongly does not want to be a member of MasterPath. In fact, I'm quite glad when that is the case- as Jesus purportedly said: "Be either hot or cold, but if you are lukewarm I will spew you from my mouth". If you're not hot, I'm glad you're cold. It will help you make progress with whatever other path in life you've chosen.
But I'd like to add some data, which may dispel some inaccuracies (or balance out the picture, at least). Or maybe it's just data, to do with as you will. In this post, I'm going to address things according to what each person said. I'm just going to address the objective aspects that I know about.
end_of_faith:
end_of_faith said that Gary flies to seminars by private jet- "I suppose Gary flying to and from seminars in a privately chartered jet in order to safeguard his ‘ultra-sensitive spiritual state’ from the psychic vibes of the manumukhs in commercial airports is also a moderate expenditure of a chelas donation or money." "It doesn’t seem to matter to you that while Mr. Olsen claims to live the life of a humble Saint, his long-term goal was always to fly on a privately chartered jet. The cost of sending him to his 4 -6 meetings a year equals the salary of a teacher."
I'm pretty sure this is inaccurate, since my mother has, by coincidence, been on several commercial flights with him (from the late 90s through the 2000s), and at most seminars I've attended someone has mentioned seeing him at a regular airport gate, or sharing a flight with he and his wife. Which only makes sense, when there are approximately a thousand seminar attendees using the same airport as him. In what was recounted to me, he was always flying in coach.
The only time I've heard of him flying by private jet was one time when a chela (whom I knew) who owned a jet flew Gary and his wife Joy to a seminar. Either Gary or Joy mentioned the flight during the seminar, so perhaps end_of_faith formed an impression from that. After that trip, Gary returned to flying commercially, which I thought was surprising. I doubt I would have turned down free private flights
. I also recall him missing a lecture, once, because his commercial flight was delayed too long. He and his wife have also referred to conversations with seatmates, and other typical airline travel experiences.
"Re: the car Gary drives. I believe your friend is listing information from 1985-87. Much has changed in 22 + years."
No, my information is from the early 2000s.
Regarding monetary stuff, in general, I've never seen a hint of wealth from Gary's lifestyle (clothing, car, house, vacations, travel, etc.).
"The numbers your friend listed are inaccurate. The last I heard is that MP is vacillating between 1500 - 1700 members. MP lacks the universal appeal to attract 10,000 followers. And if your chela-friend doesn’t know, or much care about the number of followers, why list such an exaggerated figure.
It makes me wonder if your friend thinks that there is strength in numbers, or that the greater the number, the greater the credibility or veracity. While there are some of us who began MP when there were no numbers."
If I wanted strength in numbers, I would have joined Catholicism, or if I wanted a Light and Sound path with more members, perhaps Sant Mat. But I'm one of those guys who thinks the truth is the truth, even if only one person knows it- and that's what I want. Even 10,000 members would hardly be "strength in numbers", particularly on a very non-social path.
"A lot of your ‘critical thinking skills’ seem to be backed up by a ‘second generation chela of 9 yrs.’ I know there are parents who have raised their children to relate to MP and Gary Olsen as the real deal, the Word made Flesh, the Emissary of the Light and Sound Teachings, a Swateh Saint: natural born, and all the rest. So what. Every religion has its myths of fanciful tales."
I wasn't raised to relate to MasterPath at all. Two years prior to joining, I had one conversation with my mother about it, saw a tape and read a pamphlet, and that was it. No pressure whatsoever. I had a great impression of it, and then two years later, of my own accord, I read Dennis Holtje's book and joined on my own. The only real way in which my mother had an influence was that I got to observe the remarkable positive transformation she went through which started when she joined.
Anyway, any parents raising their children in any ways that inculcate their children aren't doing what Gary asks of them. Brainwashing is anathema to MasterPath. And as I wrote in the list allan1015 cited, children aren't even allowed to join- which makes MasterPath the only path I've ever heard of that does this.
"When you receive your second initiation, you begin a monthly initiate report to the "Master." A heads-up for you: Gary doesn't read those reports and hasn't since early 90's."
Just a couple of weeks ago a chela mentioned to me that he asked Gary a question in his initiate's report, and he received a reply from Gary. And many letters I've written and other chelas have written have received a reply from him as well. One way or another, Gary is clearly getting the information, and taking a hand in many replies. He also often addresses letters or general topics of letters, in his seminar lectures.
Anyway, the writing of the initiate's reports are meant to be for the benefit of the chelas- a review of their months' experiences. It's not meant to solicit a reply, and has value whether or not someone else reads it. That's why I did them, and it's why I appreciated them. I wasn't thinking about the organizational side of things while I wrote them.
"You don’t think it is an issue that Mr. Olsen pretends to students/seekers that he is actually reading their letters of communication. You clearly do not know that the people who serve in the office don’t even know this fact. His secretary works hard to keep that secret hidden behind closed doors, packaging & sealing the box that is then discreetly mailed to those who are reading “letters to the Master”. And yet, for you, it’s just ‘teacher aide’ work, and you fail to acknowledge the deceptive nature of the pretense that is being practiced."
It's not any mystery that people in his office have a hand in the correspondence- many letters result in a basic reply by Kari, rather than Gary. Thousands of letters and initiate's reports to process each month is too much for one person. However, there are many replies by Gary himself, and many general replies given during lectures. One of my mother's letters was quoted by him at a seminar a few years ago, for example, in order to make a point.
"He .... doesn’t stay in the same hotel as the chelas, and there is a reason."
Yeah, he stays in the cheaper hotel just down the road. Where, incidentally, a lot of other chelas stay, and pass him in the hallways and on the walk to the seminar hotel.
"There is a student on MP; she's been on the path for many years. This chela suffers from a physical disability which has hindered her ability to function in the world at a level that most of us take for granted. She is a beautiful, dedicated, and sincere soul. She lives in a rural community with limited options for employment. She pays her monthly dues to be on the MP, and has accrued quite the credit card debt over the years that she has been a student. All because she loves truth and couldn't imagine living without MP in her life.
Guess what she does to earn the money to pay her 30.00 month? She irons clothes for a $1.00 an item."
Unless the chela never asked for a reduction in dues, the story seems odd to me. When I joined, I did not ask for a reduction in dues. But the office knew I was a student, and told me to name what I'd like to pay. I told them I wanted to pay $12.50 per month. They wrote back and told me to pay $5 per month instead, and $1 for satsangs. I estimate this meant they didn't make any money off of me for several years, after mailing, printing, and tape costs.
I've also known of several chelas who haven't had to pay any dues, and many other accommodations which have been made for chelas at the financial and organizational expense of MasterPath.
There are a lot of other claims made by end_of_faith which I can't address, because I've never worked in the office or I otherwise lack a reason to know what really happened. But the claims generally ring false to me, like they are speculative or exaggerated. I know one chela who previous to MasterPath worked directly for a different guru of another purported Light&Sound path, who left because of something she witnessed that guru do (and what she witnessed wasn't illegal or harmful to any members). She has worked directly with Gary in the MasterPath office for many years, and I strongly suspect if she ever witnessed anything unethical or illegal, she would have left.
I've personally done seva at several seminars, and I know others who've done much more involved seva for many years. They and I have had nothing but a delightful experience. It's the best "work-like" experience I've ever had.
FormerChela
"First I want to say, Gary and Joy Olsen do take money from the MP funds as a salery as well as a expense account. This I did not know, maybe I'm just nieve, but I was really given the impression that Gary made his money from a job as a used car salesman or a painter, and Joy as a school teacher. Now I realize he must have been reffering to before he started MP.. or something."
Gary was a painter and a soldier (but not a used car salesman, that I've ever heard), and Joy was a schoolteacher and a mother/housewife, before.
"I myself gave over $1,000 in donations per year, and that was from a job of working in fast food..uurggh. I gave MP more than 50% of what I earned in combined dues, donations, and materal purchaces. I really did go all out, and bought/copied as many satsangs as i could."
This seems odd to me- you wouldn't take your 2nd initiation (which, outwardly anyway, costs nothing and requires nothing more than a 1 page initiate's report every month), yet you gave MasterPath more than 50% of what you earned? But I'm sure it's possible.
Also, I think you mentioned not being warned that you had to get your 2nd initiation before 2 years was up. However, I remember being told about that, and when I lost track of time and had not requested my 2nd initiation in time to receive it in the first two years, I was sent a letter notifying me of this fact, and asking if I wanted to receive my 2nd initiation at the next seminar.
"Allen, I havn't noticed you comment on Dennis's free 31,200 per year."
That's an expense account, I assume it is for expenses. I recall Dennis did a tremendous amount of domestic and international travel during that year.
Another comment (I forget by who) suggested Dennis wasn't earning his salary. Given all the traveling and lecturing he's done, all over the world, and the book he wrote and the books he's helped write, I'd say he's certainly earned his salary.
Something FormerChela quoted:
"The Gary Olsen of Masterpath is a scam artist. I went to school with him growing up and he was in trouble all the time. He was in jail for stealig cars when he was in high school and he has a terrible temper. He was on the front of our local paper in Detroit Lakes, Minnesota paper for some really big trouble with a girl friend's son who he was abusing. Not sexually but by not letting him sleep in his own house. The school bus driver reported this poor kid always getting out of an old car when he was picked up in the morning and when it was investigated, Gary was in big trouble. He always said he would get on TV and make a lot of money. Now he is taking your money ted and you are a real fool. Gary is now a millionaire like he always wanted to be. He found his gimick, you who fall for his crap."
First of all, I can't find the original source page for this comment. Even if someone really wrote this, the account seems doubtful to me. I tried to find it in the local newspaper's archives, and found nothing.
I once attended a lecture where Dennis Holtje described meeting Gary about 38 years ago- working at a carwash, in fact. Eventually, Dennis became Gary's student. Gary's wife also became a student, as did a cousin of Gary's (who had previously been in Sant Mat). Gary is on good terms with his father, as well, a devout Christian. It seems like some of the people who've known him the longest don't have any trouble believing he could be a Sat Guru. There are an awful lot of chelas who appear to have been with him from the start, without any problems.
earthman:
"Is it normal to check with an older student before you post online or speak?"
No. Never heard of it (and as I mentioned at the top, I stumbled on this forum by accident). MasterPath is aware I and others have written online, and where, and they've never told me to do or not do anything. No interference whatsoever. So, I rely on the general guidance I've read and heard.
"Sounds like the type of group where members are marginalized into believing that spiritual knowledge is exclusive to your guru?"
The knowledge isn't exclusive to MasterPath. It's virtually identical to the doctrine of the Sikh religion, and a number of other "Light and Sound" paths.
"Do students have the freedom to talk outside the group or do they have to clear with someone higher on the pecking order?
Almost all my conversations are with people outside of MasterPath
.
"Does your group have meetings or instructions for recruiting members to teach you how to talk to ppl about your belief system?"
We're instructed to not try to convert people. Sharing information is OK, talking with those who are interested, etc. But nothing really inharmonious with a person or environment.
Incidentally, I wouldn't consider what I'm doing here to be proselytizing. I'm not trying to convert anyone (pretty much everyone seems to have made up their mind one way or another). I just want to defend the truth, so everyone can form their judgments from a true basis. One of the few things we are asked to do is defend the truth. And by that, I understand it to mean the whole truth, from the seemingly good to the seemingly bad. I'm happy to hear the genuine truth others are aware of, as well.
Deepcynic:
deepcynic claimed Gary smokes pot (and cigarettes as well), and I have no idea what his source was, since he's not claiming to be a former chela or to have firsthand knowledge of MasterPath. And then somewhere along the line people started talking about it as though it were true. But to the best of my knowledge, Gary doesn't drink or do drugs. He frankly seems quite ignorant about drugs, in particular.
"I do not wish to pay more taxes because of all the 'religions' hiding behind a tax dodge."
A tax dodge is when someone does something to save themselves money. Donating money is a poor tax dodge, since the donation takes 100% of the money, and what a person keeps for themselves still has to be taxed!
Also, all the donated money gets taxed eventually- the salaries of those who work for the nonprofit get taxed, there's sales tax on items purchased, etc.
On the topic of Bird Flu:
I don't remember Gary telling us to do anything radical. He suggested we be prepared, and made it clear we should determine what that meant for us. The local chelas I know got together and made some plans, kept track of information, and bought some basic provisions, but that's it, and I never thought we were supposed to be doing more. I don't personally know any other chelas who did more th an that, but I'm sure some of them are out there, and have learned valuable lessons from their experience.
I don't think preparedness is such a bad idea. From what I understand, Mormons are asked to have 2 years' supply of food, etc., on hand. When I recently had to evacuate my home due to a nearby wildfire, the past bird flu preparedness came in quite handy.
I don't understand the upset about this topic, in general. It's not like MasterPath sells survival kits. There's nothing in it for MasterPath other than trying to protect us.
Summary for this post:
There have frankly been precious few facts in all the verbiage written, and an awful lot of opinionating and emotionalism. Most of the purported facts claimed by skeptics appear to be lies, exaggerations, or to be highly questionable hearsay.
A large number of the members of MasterPath have extensive experience with other paths, including some which really were cults. One of the chelas I've cited, the pilot, went on national TV to help expose a cult. Many of us would recognize a cult if we saw one. And MasterPath just isn't it, and we've been grateful to be affiliated with such an ethical path. I have yet to ever see evidence of someone being harmed by MasterPath; I've seen examples of people who have chosen to harm themselves by their own methods- buying things they weren't told to buy, or getting distraught in odd and irrational ways- but nothing harmful coming directly from MasterPath leaders.
If anyone has any questions, please feel free ask (though I may respond privately rather than publicly, or I may not be able to reply and will explain why). I only skimmed everything- it was a lot of reading- so if there were any claims I didn't address, or questions you have, please feel free to ask.
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