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The other thing is that the woman told Saul that the ghost of the old man was "coming up out of the earth!" While in such case the ghost of Samuel the prophet should come down from the heaven, not up from the earth.
Another thing about it is that in the King James Version (which Funadmantalist Christians often claim is the only TRUE version ) 1 Samuel 28:13 says,
"And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth."
Gods? Odd wording, huh?
CAMPBELL34, I am still waiting for your explanation!
....so when Saul had the Witch at Endor summon the ghost of Samuel, was that actually him, his ghost or a demon pretending to be Samuel? (1 Samuel 28:7-20)
Well the Bible itself does not say it was actually Samuel. It only tells us Saul (PERCEIVED HIM) to be Samuel. Also, Saul put his face to the ground which was much more than some Middle Eastern custom of greeting. If it was Godly Samuel who was there, he would of likely told Saul to bow to God only. Yet no response came from the (PRECEIVED SAMUEL) that was present. And I would also say, that it would be unlikely that if God wanted to get a message to Saul, He would of used the Occult to do so. Especially when Gods command was that such people should be put to death for such activities. I believe this was another case of a demonic encounter.
Here, I think it is true, but the narration has been modified and altered.
Saul was preplexed what to do, and he was afraid of the consequences of the coming battle. It seems reasonable that he wanted to consult a man such as Prophet Samuel who anointed him as a king of the Children of Israel.
And the story is an indication that the evocation of spirits is possible; but bear in mind that sometimes in such evocation of spirits some demons or genies come and make some trickery and mockery.
New Page 1 (http://man-after-death.t35.com/1.htm#Evocation_of_Spirits - broken link)
i would like to know if anyone believes in existence of spiritual beings? give me good reasons if you don't and clarify your belief of not believing in the spiritual world
Well the Bible itself does not say it was actually Samuel. It only tells us Saul (PERCEIVED HIM) to be Samuel. Also, Saul put his face to the ground which was much more than some Middle Eastern custom of greeting. If it was Godly Samuel who was there, he would of likely told Saul to bow to God only. Yet no response came from the (PRECEIVED SAMUEL) that was present. And I would also say, that it would be unlikely that if God wanted to get a message to Saul, He would of used the Occult to do so. Especially when Gods command was that such people should be put to death for such activities. I believe this was another case of a demonic encounter.
True that it say he perceived him to be Samuel. However, Samuel, his ghost, whatever, did give Saul the message which, ostensibly, turned true.
28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
28:16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?
28:17 And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbour, even to David:
28:18 Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day.
28:19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines: and to morrow shall thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.
A pretty long and important speech by Samuel don't you think? Why then would a holy god use an evil demon to deliver such an important message? Don't demons lie? Keep in mind as well, that to the Hebrews, Satan is an angel of G-d's court....not as some devil. So this was either Samuel or his ghost.
Last edited by Fullback32; 06-12-2009 at 10:23 AM..
Reason: Added info
Well the Bible itself does not say it was actually Samuel. It only tells us Saul (PERCEIVED HIM) to be Samuel. Also, Saul put his face to the ground which was much more than some Middle Eastern custom of greeting. If it was Godly Samuel who was there, he would of likely told Saul to bow to God only. Yet no response came from the (PRECEIVED SAMUEL) that was present. And I would also say, that it would be unlikely that if God wanted to get a message to Saul, He would of used the Occult to do so. Especially when Gods command was that such people should be put to death for such activities. I believe this was another case of a demonic encounter.
What do you think about the Transfiguration when Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus on the mount?
Here we go....making the bible fit what you want it to say. Basically if you are going to put your own interpretation on these things in the bible, you might as well throw the whole lot out and start again.
Most rational people believe that the bible has been doctored and altered as it was re-written by 'scholars' down the ages. Doctored to reflect the politically correct view of those in power at the time. When following a fundemental viewpoint, how can you believe half-truths and convenient interpretations?
I am not trying to be inflamatory here, but it does seem to me to be making it all fit in with convenience.
Spirtual Experience I think, no video of it though sorry!!!!
I was driving back from my county home one beautiful summer afternoon in the early 1990's back to work after having lunch. I am not an avid church going person, even though I was raised a Catholic. My upbringing was in a charismatic catholic family. People speaking in tongues, and laying of hands on fellow members of the group. I was a child during these years so did not participate in the activities. Anyways back to my experience. As I was driving on that summer afternoon I was very stressed about my young adult life. I had been married a few years, and the marriage not going well. I began having a conversation with God(not praying). That is whom I was directing my thoughts and voice. I was saying why is life so stressul, and everything so hard as an adult. I felt very bad on the inside, and missed the innocence of my childhood. I was driving on a 4 lane highway with a grass median between the 2 lanes on either side. To my amazement and astonishment I noticed about 100 to 200 yards approxiametly down the road a huge completely black circle or shadow coming directly at the car it took up 2 lanes of the highway I was on. It hit where the car was at in a few seconds, but as it was going what I thought was over the car I looked up and out the windshield and there was nothing I could see that would cast a shadow, and the shadow was not at an angle, it was a perfect circle which anything creating a shadow by the sun(unless the sun was directly above) would not do while moving. I could tell it was passing through the car and me, and as it did I felt the most beautiful experience I have ever felt in my human existence, and all the stress and bad feeling I had inside of me immediately vanished, and tears began streaming out of my eyes. I looked into the rear view mirror, and out the side window, and it was gone. Whatever it was. Well I began to question like any human would what the hell just happened, and did it really happen. Then a day later I thought to myself that it had to have been a crop duster flying over the fields next to the highway(I was living in a rural area). Well the very next day I was driving back to work from my house at lunch time again, and low and behold a crop duster actually did buzz right over me, and it cast a shadow the shape of an airplane. I told my parents about the experience, and my mother said it had to have been the holy spirit. 20 years later as I was driving down a major city interstate, a thought came into my mind that I know what it was, since the experience is in my thoughts on a daily basis that it may have been a helicopter. A helicopter would possibly make a round shadow, and exactly at that moment a helicopter comes flying over my car and cast a shadow(not perfectly round), and you could see the roters of the helicopter moving. I was like oh my god, I am so sorry I even questioned what happended. I don't have faith that there is a God, I KNOW that God exists. I have the blessing in life of not wondering all my life if there is really a God. I was not given any answers to this life or it's meaning, and I view this experience as a personnel one, but I do know that God does exist. I have a feeling that what I experienced was one of three things God(holy spirtit), and angle, or UFO encounter. Which I don't think it the last because of the fact that all my bad feelings towards life at that time vanished at that instant. I can not prove what happened to me, but wanted to share it with this forum group since you all are talking about the subject. I have only told a very few people in my life about this happening because I know people would think I am crazy, like I am sure all of you do, but that aside, that is what happened to me on that fateful summer afternoon.
i would like to know if anyone believes in existence of spiritual beings? give me good reasons if you don't and clarify your belief of not believing in the spiritual world
Without a doubt. I grew up with many family experiences and it was natural and accepted. It's to bad there are so many negative programs on these days with the only purpose of causing controversy. I really believe someday it will be explained as something so simple as frequency. Life is energy and that never dies. It changes form. And to say something doesn't exist comes down to nothing more than where you are in history.
All of my life I have been able to experience the paranormal. In my 50's, I still do. And I'm not alone. It's something to be explored and understood. There is good and evil in the physical form and I don't believe that ceases to exist because of physical death.
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) 1 Samuel 28:13 says, 
Spirtual Experience I think, no video of it though sorry!!!!
