Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Contrary to your lies, the Acamboro figurines have been tested and were found to be fired shortly before they were found. These tests also invalidated the previous biased tests....They are nothing but a hoax Campbell, and if you do not know that by now you are blinded by your programming.
Please, could you present the scientific review that showed them to be a Hoax? And the first time they were tested, the lab sent a follow up letter confirming that their findings were both accurate and true. And only after they discovered they had tested the figuriens from El Toro mountain, did they change their minds on the accuracy of their test. Did you forget to mention that fact?
And the next three test that were done on the figurines, confirmed that the orginal accuracy of the first test. So I have no idea where you got the idea that the oppsite occured. And your link did not work. So I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. Yet, I will not accuse you of stating lies, as you have accused me. And I am sorry you don't like the Ooparts site. Yet since todays science has ignored the 30,000 figurines for the last 60 years. This is one of the few sites out there that have not ignored the figurines. And I am not blind to the four test results, and if there were any other test out there that confirm them as a hoax, can you give me the date, and the names of the labs that confirmed this?
We've already dealt with your "folk-science." Why are there no scientific studies on Jackalopes? Why aren't you all over that? But thanks for playing anyway.
Well to my knowledge there are no figurines of Jackalopes. Yet we do have figurines of dinosaurs which should be of some intrest to science. That is, if they were really intrested in the truth.
Well to my knowledge there are no figurines of Jackalopes. Yet we do have figurines of dinosaurs which should be of some intrest to science. That is, if they were really intrested in the truth.
You don't know about Jackalopes? Really? I posted about them previously, even a picture. Not only will you find "figurines" which any artisan can fashion, much like your figurines, but you will find the actual animals that have been captured and stuffed and put on display. Their heads mounted like trophies - how degrading, such tragic exploitation, I say! Thousands of them can be found all across the country. Non-believers have said that they weren't real, but I have yet to see any scientific studies proving that they are not the genuine article. It's a conspiricy, I tell you! Those evil scientists refuse to even run DNA tests on these Jackalopes, proving that they aren't real. You have to ask yourself, "Why is that?" What do they have to hide? They are afraid and act all uppity and arrogant, but show me the proof. Until then, they need to put up or shut up! I am surprised you are not all over this. Get up to speed, man! This is big, it dwarfs what is going on with your figurines.
Well to my knowledge there are no figurines of Jackalopes. Yet we do have figurines of dinosaurs which should be of some intrest to science. That is, if they were really intrested in the truth.
I'm very interested in 'the truth' which is not the same thing as 'the Truth'.
"Unfortunately, the locals could not agree on whether the stones were found in a nearby cave or a riverbed (Polidoro, 2002).
Finally, by 1975 the inquiring minds had their answers. Two of the individuals who sold the stones to Dr. Cabrera, Basilio Uchuya and his wife Irma Gutierrez, admitted that they carved the stones themselves! Later testing revealed that traces of sandpaper were found in the etchings (Polidoro, 2002).
...Dr. Meyers found even more problems with the authenticity of the Ica Stones. Dr. Meyers noticed that the etchings did not accurately depict any known dinosaurs, found pencil and hacksaw blade tool marks, and dung to make the etchings appear older than they were. Meyers found that some of the stones appeared to be authentic--the ones which did not depict prehistoric creatures."
Arq comment This thrown up a few questions. Why have I never heard of the anachronistic traces before? how do we know that 'some are genuine' Just the ok ones without dinosaurs?
"Concerning the Ica Stones of Peru, Don Patton reports that:
"Dr. Cabrera told us that in the early 1930's, his father found many of these ceremonial burial stones in area's numerous tombs. He has continued his father's research and has collected over 11,000 of them."
From a scientific standpoint, and even from a legal standpoint, a second-hand account of a claim is of little value. Where are the grave sites which Dr. Cabrera and his father excavated? Where were the stones found relative to other artifacts which might provides clues about the age of the stones and the culture which produced them? Why hasn't Dr. Cabrera invited archaeologists to accompany him in his search for the stones? Why hasn't any archaeologists discovered similar artifacts to the stones which Dr. Cabrera claims to have discovered?
Contrary to the claim that these stones are authentic, a person has admitted to creating some of Ica stones:
"Swift, McQueen and I went to the village of Ocucaje, met and talked with Bacilleo Achua, the graver robber mentioned in the video, who admitted manufacturing some of the stones which a hack saw blade. He says police were present when he was asked, "Did you manufacture the stones you sold to Dr. Cabrera?" If he said so and admitted that they came from the tombs, he had no doubt that he would go to prison. The average life expectancy in a Peruvian prison is two years."
Don Patton does well to point out why Bacilleo Achua would lie about creating fake artifacts, but he has not presented any evidence that this man actually did lie about creating fake artifacts. To the contrary, Don Patton concedes that Bacilleo Achua did create counterfeit artifacts:"
Arq comment. Again, these are opinions rather than peer reviewed evaluations, yet they do raise questions. It's the old question of producing evidence of Christianity, to get down to the basics, then, when the 'evidence' is questioned, the questions are dismissed with accusations of conspiracy and fresh claims. Obviouslty if the carvings show the marks of a dentist drill, arguments that they could never have got hold of one down there look weak.
" I think I first saw them in one of Eric von Daniken’s books back in the ‘60s, then they turned up in an “In Search Of†documentary in the ‘70s. They all look like the same kind of rock carved with an iron chisel. The thin lines look too sharp to have been carved with another rock, so they look like they’ve been carved with iron or steel tools, or maybe a diamond-tipped rotary tool on a Dremel drill. The modern Indians in the US Southwest use Dremel drills to carve fine lines in stones used for jewelry."
Ah.
It was well said that, if these turned out to be genuine, they would be a shock to the present state of history (more than the Ta Phrom Stegosaur or the Ark of the covenant). So they need to be well proven. So far the provenance is doubtful, the claims on both sides unverified and I am finding it hard to find verification.
In some ways I don't see why a Christian would latch onto something originally intended as a Van-Daniken/Atlantis type deal anyway.
If they were genuine it'd mean early people had telescopes, brain surgery, and other things not mentioned in the Bible. It'd also mean that, for some reason, nothing else remains of these people except these rocks. There's no preserved telescope or any other trace. Maybe if you're Mormon it'd work, but otherwise meh.
Again with the Lies. Purposeful Lying: quite unChristian, i'd say...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34
What makes the matter even worse, is when scientist have been asked to consider such finds, it becomes very hard to get them to even come to investigate the claim.
This was the case with the El Toro figurines,
Yet no scientist from evolutions side ever sought to test the figurines themselves, because they refuted their worldview, so they ignored them. And they did this, just like every other discovery that does not agree with their views.
Again, you lie, Tom. simple Fact IS: the city has refused to provide the samples necessary, and you know it, and yet you persist. As I've said, this behavior is hardly very Christian of you. To knowingly lie outright and repeatedly.
well, I'm not going to let you get away with your persistant lies on this one, ever. "Science" in the form of me and my alma mater, are only too happy to check out the true age of these figurines. It's the religious and tourism-driven folks in Acambara that won't provide us with samples. They can't have the truth out there, for obvious reasons.
Try saying the following in one of your posts, Tom:
"Acambara won't provide science with the samples necessary to test these for age with modern irrefutible systems"
Try it, I dare you! I know; you just can't bring yourself to mutter the truth; that part's obvious is all of your posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34
Please, could you present the scientific review that showed them to be a Hoax? And the first time they were tested, the lab sent a follow up letter confirming that their findings were both accurate and true. And only after they discovered they had tested the figuriens from El Toro mountain, did they change their minds on the accuracy of their test. Did you forget to mention that fact?
Did you forget to mention they used Carbon 14 dating on inorganic clay figurines, and that this is entirely useless and inappropriate? A real ooopppsssy?
Yet, I will not accuse you of stating lies, as you have accused me.
Nope, wasn't him. It was me, and it's quite true. See above for latest transgression!
Of course, all the other evidence (geologic, paleontological, DNA, bones found alongside the dino finds, and various highly developed and proven isotopic dating techniques) ALL prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that dinosaurs walked the earth well before man, in the period 250 to 150 million years ago.
To even speculate that massive, always hungry vicous predatory dinosaurs would kindly co-exist with completely culturalized man, allowing themselves to be saddled and ridden around ("Hey there big fella! Hold up while I adjust my saddle!") is absurd on its face, and at so many levels. Any child can see that's purenonsense, and yet it's the only way that the vast Christian myth can go on, so the fictions have been developed to support such total cr@p-think. All the while knowing full well that they were generating lies, lies and more lies.
Well, maybe that's a true characteristic of Christianity after all? Seems to be, huh, Tom?
Fortunately only the vastly scientifically and logically illiterate need and want to believe it; the rest of the educated world moves on. Have you heard my much repeated phrase, Tom?
"Science Abandons the Absurd!" Repeat it to yourself, and often. It's true.
So any other discussion to the contrary is simply an exercise in stupidity for the shear sake of stupidity. Or religious apologism. It's akin to endlessly arguing that the Earth's flat, which I assure you it isn't! It's just a diversion from the truth, which is a goal of Christian teaching. so, if you have to lie a little, so what. It's OK. god won't care!
Last edited by rifleman; 07-20-2009 at 11:23 AM..
Reason: typoz
Sicne I don't feel like delving through so many pages of what is sure to be the same old lame arguments by the Creationists, I'll just throw my two cents in here...
Every means of scientific study, reserarch and investigations shows that the dinasours died out millions of years before man evolved.
Every single bit of false evidence offered by charletons (like at the Creation Museum) have proven to be frauds, either created or purposely misrepresented.
Why a religion simply must rely on fraud (like the pre-Columbian hebrew culture frauds as well) in an attempt to substantiate their religion simply boggles my mind.
ESPECIALLY coming from one of the many religions claiming to by the "only true religion".
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Again with the Lies. Purposeful Lying: quite unChristian, i'd say...
