Lady pulled over by Shavano Pk PD with no license, no insurance & expired registration, claims deportation threat by PD.
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I am a white, English speaking male. I am also a resident alien. At no point in my life has the status of my immigration ever come up in conversation
I don't see any ethnic profiling being behind her being stopped. It was a lawful stop. She failed to provide the necessary documents/identification required by law by all people operating a motor vehicle.
And if you're a resident alien, I would suspect you would still have enough common sense to acquire a Texas driver's license, insurance and have your vehicle registration up to date.
The fact is she *could* have been an illegal alien based on the fact that she only had a Mexican ID with her.
Ethnic Profiling? As a teen I was stopped by police a few times, and despite not having an ID, I was NEVER questioned about my legal status here in the country.
At least try to deport her. Possibly one less person taxing our system.
Undocumented workers put more into the system than take out. Not only do American employers and industries profit from their cheap labor but so does our state government.
Despite Rhetoric, Illegal Immigration Provides Benefits to States - FOXBusiness.com (http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/economy/illegal-immigration-provides-benefits-states-despite-rhetoric/ - broken link)
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Almost every reputable study — the National Science Foundation, the Rand Corporation, the Cato Institute and numerous academic efforts — suggest that immigrants contribute more to economic output and taxes than they cost in services.
In other words the argument of they are taking more than putting in is not valid according to actual data. I also appreciate the fact that some arguments are more based on sentiment and less on facts, which is fine, but no fooling those of us who demand proof of any claims.
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Originally Posted by xsa210tx
As a 4th-generation born Latino who is proud to be an American, whenever I see that stupid Jaime Martinez (por favor, amnesty for all illegals, America) bozo or that I-have-to-wear-a-big-pink-hat-all-the-time Rosa Rosales from LULAC try to make it into a "civil rights" issue I just wanna go down to their West-side shack (where they hold their news conferences) and give them a piece of my mind!
My family on my father's side has roots here in South Texas going back to the 1800's. He came from Europe as a German-speaker but since he was Catholic he married into a Mexican family. Hispanicized Germans are not that much of an oddity in South Texas though Texas history does not focus on them much. This is how we received the accordion in Tejano music.
My point is that immigration issues are largely labor issues, and that ethnic issues, which are separate than immigration or labor issues, still exist in communities which have largely homogeneous ethnic identities. Within these Mexican-American communities there are still issues that need to be addressed so that reform occurs.
In other words, those of us out of touch with these communities, both immigrant and Mexican-American communities, regardless of your 3rd, 4th, or 5th generation status, do not automatically receive a license to become the spokespersons for these communities.
They neither have any special "insider" status when they act as critics of these communities.
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Originally Posted by kevcrawford
Nobody said a traffic violation is grounds for deportation. But being here illegally is. If someone is stopped for a violation, and they're found to be here ILLEGALLY (which I'm beginning to thing has lost its meaning to some people), she should get deported.
The 1984 Supreme Court decision INS v Lopez-Mendoza stated that, "A deportation proceeding is a purely civil action to determine eligibility to remain in this country, and not to punish unlawful entry."
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The purpose of deportation is not to punish past transgressions, but rather to put an end to a continuing violation of the immigration laws. Consistent with the civil nature of a deportation proceeding, various protections that apply in the context of a criminal trial do not apply in a deportation hearing. Pp. 468 U. S. 1038-1039.
Recently Arizona has attempted to make being here while undocumented a crime, federal law does not mirror this, there is no federal statute making simply being here while undocumented a crime.
On the other hand since 9/11 the law has changed in that according to federal law now it is a misdemeanor to cross the border while being unauthorized. There is a subtle difference between the two that some might not appreciate.
In either case what other misdemeanor crime allows for families to be broken apart? The punishment should fit the crime.
'Family reunification' is a historical term that some might benefit from researching.
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Originally Posted by torero
If you concede that she may not be an illegal immigrant, then we essentially agree.
In short, my problem with this incident and this thread in general is this:
1. Why did this police officer step beyond the realm of his authority and raise the specter of deportation?
2. Why noone in this thread realizes this is the core issue in this incident!?
I do not think this is a race issue. Otherwise many of the mexican americans in this board would be on her side. Instead, they are proudly saying "I am 4(X) generation mexican american, and this lady is in the wrong..." This is not a race incident but an anti immigration incident. And with the climate so charged due to the Arizona law, people forget that there are also a few legal immigrants out here. The way things are looking, we (legal immigrants) are going to be a casualty, drowning in the sea of voices shouting "they took er jerbs."
Agreed.
The issue, the only issue, is the threat of deportation by someone clearly unqualified to make such a statement. A local law enforcement officer has no extensive or comprehensive training unlike a federal border patrol agent in these issues would have.
The article I read regarding this story indicated that the woman in question accepted the stop, the tickets, and did not question any of those.
This is not about a racial or an ethnic profiling stop. While those issues still exist, more so based on economic classism, that is not what is at issue.
Arguing the racial profiling point while ignoring the fact that a local law enforcement officer allegedly threatened her with deportation does not change anything. Simply dismissing the allegations is also highly presumptuous as much as insisting that this in fact did occur.
The truth is, we do not know, and unless a court or other investigative authority were to question everyone, there is nothing that can be stated as fact regarding that in this forum, there will be no investigation though since the woman in question is not pursuing the matter.
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Originally Posted by mamatotex97
Everyone needs to ask....
If I were driving in Mexico or any other country, without any papers/passport/id/license/registration/expired tags.......WHAT WOULD HAPPEN? (and be truthful) Because fact is your sorry a$$ would be hauled off. And noone would call that country racist or profiling. So why is it when we hold people here to our LAWS, we are the bad guys????
We consider ourselves as more free than Mexico when it comes to comparing government and societies so we should act like it and will be called on it if acting any other way.
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Originally Posted by torero
The hostility against immigrants (legal and ilegal) displayed by posters here is frightening. Yes, she is guilty of minor traffic violtions and of not carrying with her proper ID.
This unfortunately happens thousands of times around this great country, and is obviously NOT why this story is newsworthy.
The reason this is newsworthy is a police officer (yes, aledgedly) threatened this lady with deportation without authority.
It is obviously a widely and wildly unpopular note. Why? Because xenophobia clouds peoples minds, as evidenced by the numerous incoherent posts in this thread.
I am not defending this lady's careless and yes, illegal actions. I am just trying to underscore and draw attention to the allegation of deportation, which is the key part that makes this whole thing newsworthy.
Indeed. There is nothing to defend in this women, she was violating traffic law, which is also a civil offense, and was issued citations.
She did nothing that requires defense.
The comments of the officer, if true, and those of others, are revealing. Those might need defense.
Fortunately history has shown us that America is a land that operates change through compromise, a land that has embraced many reforms that make us better. Those against such reforms, reactionaries, never are able to hold back progress indefinitely. In fact hearing them complain, especially without any supporting data to support some of their positions, only proves that reform has been and will continue to occur. If not they would not complain at all.
Undocumented workers put more into the system than take out. Not only do American employers and industries profit from their cheap labor but so does our state government.
Despite Rhetoric, Illegal Immigration Provides Benefits to States - FOXBusiness.com (http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/economy/illegal-immigration-provides-benefits-states-despite-rhetoric/ - broken link)
My point is that immigration issues are largely labor issues, and that ethnic issues, which are separate than immigration or labor issues, still exist in communities which have largely homogeneous ethnic identities. Within these Mexican-American communities there are still issues that need to be addressed so that reform occurs.
Oh! Great! So let's just continue to ALLOW an illegal invasion by the millions every year WITHOUT knowing who they are, their background from their country of origin, and if they have committed any crimes.
JUST because there are some positive effects from the cheap labor that is derived from them, doesn't make it right to ALLOW them to stay in our country illegally.
You can frame it however you want in terms of the cheap labor helping us out but the bottom line is that there is a LEGAL way to enter our country.
Legal immigrants going through background checks and paying THEIR share of taxes, WAITING in line to become a citizen and those who learn our language are more than welcome to come into this country. I don't think anyone disputes that.
But having an open borders situation allowing ANYONE who can "sneak in" to our country IS NOT HOW MOST AMERICANS WANT IT.
It needs to be done the LEGAL AND RIGHT WAY.
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Originally Posted by Merovee
In other words, those of us out of touch with these communities, both immigrant and Mexican-American communities, regardless of your 3rd, 4th, or 5th generation status, do not automatically receive a license to become the spokespersons for these communities.
They neither have any special "insider" status when they act as critics of these communities.
Um, what kind of hog-washed nonsense is this? I'M AN AMERICAN CITIZEN. A citizen needs a "license" to become a "spokesperson" about my own country? Pleeeeeease!
First, I'm not trying to be a spokesperson. I didn't mention that I'm 4th generation born in order to elevate myself over anyone (in case anyone thinks that). I mentioned it BECASUE I'm tired of the media framing it on the news as "Latinos protested today," and "Latino rights organizations are opposed to Arizona's law," etc.....
I'm Latino but I SUPPORT THE ARIZONA LAW. And there's many more Latinos who are FOR the law as well! As a Latino, I don't want to be grouped in with these LULAC groups and others opposing the Law becasue I DON'T SUPPORT these Latino groups' position!
I may be Latino but I SUPPORT ARIZONA'S LAW AND SO DO THE >> MAJORITY << OF AMERICANS!
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Originally Posted by Merovee
The 1984 Supreme Court decision INS v Lopez-Mendoza stated that, "A deportation proceeding is a purely civil action to determine eligibility to remain in this country, and not to punish unlawful entry."
Recently Arizona has attempted to make being here while undocumented a crime, federal law does not mirror this, there is no federal statute making simply being here while undocumented a crime.
On the other hand since 9/11 the law has changed in that according to federal law now it is a misdemeanor to cross the border while being unauthorized. There is a subtle difference between the two that some might not appreciate.
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Originally Posted by Merovee
In either case what other misdemeanor crime allows for families to be broken apart? The punishment should fit the crime.
Entering my country illegally IS A CRIME. I don't care if they're broken apart or not...HE/SHE SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT WHEN THEY TOOK THE EASY WAY OUT AND SNEAKED INTO MY COUNTRY.
That's why there's a LEGAL way to enter my country. Entering my country illegally SPITS ON THE FACE of every LEGAL immigrant who enters my country the RIGHT WAY.
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Originally Posted by Merovee
'Family reunification' is a historical term that some might benefit from researching.
Cool, I should go to Canada and practice some "family reunification" over there and live off their government. How awesome it would be to get so much goodies from their taxpayers!
Simply put, Americans are fed up and tired of the pillaging of our social services system and it won't be long before the laws are changed so that ILLEGAL immigration is toughened up!
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Originally Posted by Merovee
'Family reunification' The issue, the only issue, is the threat of deportation by someone clearly unqualified to make such a statement. A local law enforcement officer has no extensive or comprehensive training unlike a federal border patrol agent in these issues would have.
Then that's why they call ICE to handle the situation. ICE then proceeds from that point on.
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Originally Posted by Merovee
Fortunately history has shown us that America is a land that operates change through compromise, a land that has embraced many reforms that make us better. Those against such reforms, reactionaries, never are able to hold back progress indefinitely. In fact hearing them complain, especially without any supporting data to support some of their positions, only proves that reform has been and will continue to occur. If not they would not complain at all.
Ok, true.....
AND WE ARE A NATION OF LAWS (that need to be followed)!
The off-topic-for-local-forums tangents continued after two warnings. This thread is now closed. The mod team may reopen it if there are significant developments in the news story.
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