The San Francisco Trash/Needles/Poop in the Streets Containment Thread (San Diego: tenant, contractor)

[Genghis]

Originally Posted by TR95

So sleeping on the streets and around the sh-t is a better life. Ok, got ya, you make a lot of sense. You fit right in in SF then. More wasteful spending and oh, how is that stupid $2.1B bus stop doing? Good thing they got Salesforce to pay a sponsor fee so they can help meet their obligations. Once again, great job SF! At least Tulemutt gives you a +1.

No it's not a better life, but it's illegal for them to be kidnapped and exiled. In earlier parts of US history groups of people would routinely be shipped off, such as the Japanese internment camps in WWII, but nowadays no judge would allow it. Similarly it's very hard to involuntarily commit people to a mental institution. Individual rights reign supreme in our legal system.

There's a 2.1 billion dollar bus stop? Where I am bus stops tend to be posts stuck in the ground.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by TR95

So sleeping on the streets and around the sh-t is a better life. Ok, got ya, you make a lot of sense. You fit right in in SF then. More wasteful spending and oh, how is that stupid $2.1B bus stop doing? Good thing they got Salesforce to pay a sponsor fee so they can help meet their obligations. Once again, great job SF! At least Tulemutt gives you a +1.

You’re an interesting reader. Where did Genghis suggest “sleeping on the streets around the sh*t is a better life”? He was pointing out that the salary to clean it up is not too high given the unpleasant nature of the job.

And, since you apparently agree the sh*t is nasty, then why are you suggesting cleaning it up is “wasteful spending”? Do you have a less costly solution to offer?

[TR95]

Originally Posted by Genghis

No it's not a better life, but it's illegal for them to be kidnapped and exiled. In earlier parts of US history groups of people would routinely be shipped off, such as the Japanese internment camps in WWII, but nowadays no judge would allow it. Similarly it's very hard to involuntarily commit people to a mental institution. Individual rights reign supreme in our legal system.

There's a 2.1 billion dollar bus stop? Where I am bus stops tend to be posts stuck in the ground.

Ok, making $40k cleaning up poop is not a better life than sleeping on the streets? Ok, once again, great job SF. Oh, I guess you miss that $2.1B "covered" bus stop that spans 4-5 city blocks then. You know, the one that replaced the old one damaged in the 89 quake. They did a fabulous job coming under budget and meeting the timeline with that one, only to oh wow, let's not have underground trains for another 10 years and let's not expand the dedicated lane for the busses as you exit the freeway. Ok, yeah, great job SF!

[TR95]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

You’re an interesting reader. Where did Genghis suggest “sleeping on the streets around the sh*t is a better life”? He was pointing out that the salary to clean it up is not too high given the unpleasant nature of the job.

And, since you apparently agree the sh*t is nasty, then why are you suggesting cleaning it up is “wasteful spending”? Do you have a less costly solution to offer?

I already suggested an idea, but you obviously can't read. I'm done with you just as Jones says it so well. It's a waste of time spending on someone that sits on the Internet all day. Maybe you can get off your boat and clean it up for free.

So again, paying a homeless person $40k to clean up poop is not a better life than sleeping on the streets? So oh wise one, you got a solution, or I guess you're just here to defend the policies that obviously haven't worked for the last, oh I don't know, 30-40 years?

[jbgusa]

Originally Posted by TR95

So sleeping on the streets and around the sh-t is a better life. Ok, got ya, you make a lot of sense. You fit right in in SF then. More wasteful spending and oh, how is that stupid $2.1B bus stop doing? Good thing they got Salesforce to pay a sponsor fee so they can help meet their obligations. Once again, great job SF! At least Tulemutt gives you a +1.

Well the liberals would say that we should take compassion on them and purchase and maintain for them at least middle-class housing.

[Genghis]

Originally Posted by TR95

Ok, making $40k cleaning up poop is not a better life than sleeping on the streets? Ok, once again, great job SF. Oh, I guess you miss that $2.1B "covered" bus stop that spans 4-5 city blocks then. You know, the one that replaced the old one damaged in the 89 quake. They did a fabulous job coming under budget and meeting the timeline with that one, only to oh wow, let's not have underground trains for another 10 years and let's not expand the dedicated lane for the busses as you exit the freeway. Ok, yeah, great job SF!

I have no idea what you're babbling about. The people making money cleaning up poop aren't the homeless themselves, and even if they were, there would not be nearly enough jobs for all of them.

If you're talking about the Transbay Transit Center, it's a lot more than a bus stop.

Time for you to go back to the Alex Jones show and Trump's twitter feed... they're filled with lies and other disinformation that can be spewed here without thinking.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by TR95

I already suggested an idea, but you obviously can't read. I'm done with you just as Jones says it so well. It's a waste of time spending on someone that sits on the Internet all day. Maybe you can get off your boat and clean it up for free.

So again, paying a homeless person $40k to clean up poop is not a better life than sleeping on the streets? So oh wise one, you got a solution, or I guess you're just here to defend the policies that obviously haven't worked for the last, oh I don't know, 30-40 years?

In other words: you can’t formulate a realistic, supportable position and carry it through a debate process.
(I probably burn more calories and accomplish more in a day in my 70’s than you do in a week on average. My iPad is my diversion alongside my piles of wood and tools as I build a boat, repair a roof, install a new bathroom, hike 7-10 miles a day with the dog, often adding a bike ride ... while you sit in your cubicle somewhere ...)

Paying several homeless persons $40k instead of $71k a year to clean poop would be a perfectly good idea, assuming several things, things that I could believe might be worked out (training, liabilities might be similar) if you could find some sober, straight, interested homeless. I wouldn’t be surprised if you could.

That said, how many employees at this theorhetical $31k savings would we be talking about? Five: X $31,000 ... saving $150k annually? Nice. Right?

Now, how much is the program budgeted to cost? $900,000 for that specific poop patrol, out of $2.3 million for steam cleaning pooped streets, out of $100 million for the total poop and needle clean up budget. Suddenly, the $150k doesn’t seem so amazing.

Every dollar saved is a great concept. Balance that with finding, training, supervising the new workers. Maybe the city would get lucky and really set a few formerly homeless on a new path. Expecting to replace lots of municipal workers involved in homeless camp clean up and needle clean up, etc is going to get dicey. Try paying ½ wages to inexperienced, untrained, non-vetted homeless replacing union employees and get back to us on that campaign putting an equal number of persons out of work who formerly contributed more back into the local economy. Maybe the old workers will then become homeless themselves!

Go for it. I don’t see you as having solved “the problem” of the poop or hardly, if at all, of the cost. But it’s certainly a nice gesture effort.

The short term solution is to try to clean the streets while long term solutions can be figured and implemented.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by jbgusa

Well the liberals would say that we should take compassion on them and purchase and maintain for them at least middle-class housing.

Maybe you could give us readers a source on that?

[TR95]

Originally Posted by Genghis

I have no idea what you're babbling about. The people making money cleaning up poop aren't the homeless themselves, and even if they were, there would not be nearly enough jobs for all of them.

If you're talking about the Transbay Transit Center, it's a lot more than a bus stop.

Time for you to go back to the Alex Jones show and Trump's twitter feed... they're filled with lies and other disinformation that can be spewed here without thinking.

No sh-t, the people cleaning up the poop aren't the homeless. Never said that. So why not ask a few homeless if they'd want to get off the streets and make $40k. Again, it's just more wasteful spending, that with OT, the pay will top 6 figures, which if you read what I actually wrote in my post was that even at $71K it's more than teachers in SF, and that's a crime. But hey, if you think it's worth it to waste money, which you know will be the case, then good for you.

Yeah lmfao, right it's more than a bus stop. What else is there other than buses? A nice walkway on the rooftop with trees, maybe will get some tenants eventually to help pay the annual costs? Again, SF screwed it up, couldn't even get the incoming lane dedicated to buses right as you exit the freeway. Ok, again great job SF. So where are the apparent lies I have spewed?

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...s-13149810.php

https://slate.com/business/2018/08/s...ew-normal.html

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...e-13142498.php

[TR95]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

In other words: you can’t formulate a realistic, supportable position and carry it through a debate process.
(I probably burn more calories and accomplish more in a day in my 70’s than you do in a week on average. My iPad is my diversion alongside my piles of wood and tools as I build a boat, repair a roof, install a new bathroom, hike 7-10 miles a day with the dog, often adding a bike ride ... while you sit in your cubicle somewhere ...)

Paying several homeless persons $40k instead of $71k a year to clean poop would be a perfectly good idea, assuming several things, things that I could believe might be worked out (training, liabilities might be similar) if you could find some sober, straight, interested homeless. I wouldn’t be surprised if you could.

That said, how many employees at this theorhetical $31k savings would we be talking about? Five: X $31,000 ... saving $150k annually? Nice. Right?

Now, how much is the program budgeted to cost? $900,000 for that specific poop patrol, out of $2.3 million for steam cleaning pooped streets, out of $100 million for the total poop and needle clean up budget. Suddenly, the $150k doesn’t seem so amazing.

Every dollar saved is a great concept. Balance that with finding, training, supervising the new workers. Maybe the city would get lucky and really set a few formerly homeless on a new path. Expecting to replace lots of municipal workers involved in homeless camp clean up and needle clean up, etc is going to get dicey. Try paying ½ wages to inexperienced, untrained, non-vetted homeless replacing union employees and get back to us on that campaign putting an equal number of persons out of work who formerly contributed more back into the local economy. Maybe the old workers will then become homeless themselves!

Go for it. I don’t see you as having solved “the problem” of the poop or hardly, if at all, of the cost. But it’s certainly a nice gesture effort.

The short term solution is to try to clean the streets while long term solutions can be figured and implemented.

I see you're a real Izzy Mandelbaum. Is it "go time, Tule?" Now, look in the mirror and repeat "Tulemutt, Tulemutt, Tulemutt." Great for you and thanks for your daily routine as I'm sure it's much more exciting than mine. I can only hope I am Izzy in 18 years so I can be up to your standards.

So again, why don't they try with a few homeless to see if they would actually take a job rather than be on the street? And the so called LT solutions that SF and many other cities have employed have worked so well up until now? Ok, makes sense.