My heart is broken whenever I see homeless people (Merced: rent, homes)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

That's like saying individuals recycling and cleaning up their garbage makes no difference in terms of the environment. It's always easier to blame someone else or tell someone else to change.

No it’s not like saying individual recycling makes no difference. How each individual deals with their own waste is personal responsibility. How each of us deal with homelessness is quite a different challenge. This is the point I was making earlier about how we are trapped in our mindless consumer society that drives competition. You want do do what about that exactly? Drop out? I endorse it, obviously . But even if you do, you won’t alter the course of our culture.

Homelessness won’t be solved by individual acts of kindness nor of rebellion. And thus sneering at others while challenging them to take homeless into their living rooms is barely even sophomoric.

I absolutely encourage people to contribute what they feel they can. But I don’t judge them by whether they do or not, or what specifically they do.

[CorporateCowboy]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

Right you do nothing personally besides point your finger at others and society.

I'm pointing my finger at mental illness (and the role it plays in chronic homelessness) in support of Hearts in SF/ZSFG, 2020 (while you point your finger at me).

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy

I agree, but we shouldn't use this as an excuse to distance ourselves from it either - or make it larger than life i.e. 'nothing we can do'. Everyone can contribute - it begins with a sense of empathy/responsibility to do something. Additionally, there is a difference between those who find themselves temporarily without shelter vs. chronic homelessness; people have a difficult time differentiating between the two (and the role mental illness/addiction plays in the latter).

Quite obviously I haven’t distanced myself from it. And I certainly encourage donating whatever. But while individuals contribute, we don’t change the stupidity of our cultural trajectory. Because of this, we can individually provide various small gifts of temporary relief ... which is nice, and meaningful in the short moments. But the only solutions lie in society accepting the [costly] role of providing simple housing solutions without preconditions and judgements ... and then making other services available on voluntary participation basis. Society as a whole has to accept there is a cost to our materialism. The cost is either the inhumane abandonment we see now that causes so many problems for everyone ... or finance getting these wretches off the streets. Shaming the homeless is ridiculous. They’re not responding, obviously. They’re past that.

[bmw335xi]

I take issue with people who climb on a moral high horse to criticize others when they haven't done anything themselves. It's evident I've attempted more good deeds than you (cowboy), yet you think you are morally superior for what... saying on a forum you have empathy for all homeless.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

It is the scammers I detest...

I was working landscape and woman with a dog/shoppingcart approaches asking if I like dogs and I said yes... she then explains they are homeless and her dog has not had anything to eat and she needs money for dog food.

I said wait here... I can help and walked to my truck and pulled out 5lb of dog food and handed it to her... (I had bought the dog food for my neighbor and would buy another on the way home)

The woman looks at me and refuses... I told her I was giving it to her and her dog would have food for at least a week... her reply floored me... she said she didn't want it... her dog only eats special food that costs $20... and there you go... on my way to being jaded at 19.

I have many similar and for years I could not step out of my service truck without being approached... remember one from my OPD ride along... he had a rap sheet which I mentioned to him... and that was the end of it... he changed the way he spoke and started cussing as he walked away.

A lot of people use to say they had car trouble and needed a tow... I said I have AAA and where to they need their car towed?... not a single person ever took me up on it... not once and I was sincere.

At work having to clean up human feces and trash each morning has also made me jaded... there are plenty of trash urns serviced daily yet it is more fun to smash liquor bottles than place in the urn...

Hot water hose, Pine-sol and scrub broom the doorways at 4:30 am each morning can't help but change a person... yet I continue to help those in need.

Certainly there are always scammers. Focused on the veterans as I am, I gotta tell you that many of those characters standing on street corners with their cardboard “homeless veteran” signs - ain’t vets. It’s a common ploy. I’m long past being pissed off about it though. Scammers gonna scam.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by bmw335xi

I take issue with people who climb on a moral high horse to criticize others when they haven't done anything themselves. It's evident I've attempted more good deeds than you (cowboy), yet you think you are morally superior for what... saying on a forum you have empathy for all homeless.

“It’s evident” how, exactly? How do you know what another has done on an anonymous forum? The best guess any reader here can make is based on apparent knowledgeability expressed. You don’t exhibit any in my opinion.

[CorporateCowboy]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Quite obviously I haven’t distanced myself from it. And I certainly encourage donating whatever. But while individuals contribute, we don’t change the stupidity of our cultural trajectory. Because of this, we can individually provide various small gifts of temporary relief ... which is nice, and meaningful in the short moments. But the only solutions lie in society accepting the [costly] role of providing simple housing solutions without preconditions and judgements ... and then making other services available on voluntary participation basis. Society as a whole has to accept there is a cost to our materialism. The cost is either the inhumane abandonment we see now that causes so many problems for everyone ... or finance getting these wretches off the streets. Shaming the homeless is ridiculous. They’re not responding, obviously. They’re past that.

I didn't say you had distanced yourself; I meant society as a whole - and I agree re: the acceptance of cost in terms of solutions (and the inhumane abandonment on the streets). Nowhere is the latter more evident, however, than in those with mental illness as they are left to wander (confused and often yelling or defacating on the streets) without adequate treatment when their own families have turned them away. It's nothing to do with materialism; it's sheer ignorance (and a stigma) associated with mental illness along with a lack of resources and availability of adequate care. We will not solve (or substantially reduce) chronic homelessness without addressing mental health and addiction.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy

I didn't say you had distanced yourself; I meant society as a whole - and I agree re: the acceptance of cost in terms of solutions (and the inhumane abandonment on the streets). Nowhere is the latter more evident, however, than in those with mental illness as they are left to wander (confused and often yelling or defacating on the streets) without adequate treatment when their own families have turned them away. It's nothing to do with materialism; it's sheer ignorance (and a stigma) associated with mental illness along with a lack of resources and availability of adequate care. We will not solve (or substantially reduce) chronic homelessness without addressing mental health and addiction.

While agreeing with your concern for mental illness, that isn’t so singular a source of homelessness as you suggest. It is big. It is sad. It is deplorable. It demands intense focus. But there are LOTS of homeless, including chronic homeless, who are on the streets from other causes.

And, at the root, I’m afraid, IS our materialistic culture. Yes. It. Is. And that, apparently, is not going to change. So yep, we gotta step up to the plate and pay the freight.

Primitive societies experienced almost zero mental illness. And where mental and personality anomalies did occur, they were accommodated. In simple, small societies, everyone relied on cohesion, not competition.

If you haven’t read my references to Dunbar’s Number in the past, you might look it up. I think you will find it fascinating and relevant. We, as a species, have a design limitation for empathy. We also have remarkable rational processing that has allowed us to grow into huge societies by intellectualizing our empathetic depths and projecting them sufficiently to muddle on as we do. It’s quite a conundrum.

[Ultrarunner]

Growing up in East Oakland I never saw a homeless camp under an overpass or next to the OPD headquarters for that matter.... for whatever reason it simply did not exist.

What I do remember way back then was many, many people hitch hiking... every on ramp had hitch hikers... don't see that anymore.

[CorporateCowboy]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

While agreeing with your concern for mental illness, that isn’t so singular a source of homelessness as you suggest. It is big. It is sad. It is deplorable. It demands intense focus. But there are LOTS of homeless, including chronic homeless, who are on the streets from other causes.

And, at the root, I’m afraid, IS our materialistic culture. Yes. It. Is. And that, apparently, is not going to change. So yep, we gotta step up to the plate and pay the freight.

Of course it's not the only cause; I'm stating it's a significant one (along with addiction) in terms of chronic homelessness. We can debate all night as to the various causes (and probably won't agree); but from my perspective, we have to start somewhere - and it's as good a place as any as there can be no denying the connection between mental illness and addiction to chronic homelessness.