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So, the Corps was supposed to foresee a year's worth of rain falling in a couple weeks? Everyone is bitching that they didn't release more sooner, but does anyone remember that a little river called the MISSISSIPPI was flooding? So I guess the Corps should have just upped the releases and made the situation worse for people dealing with that flood.
I also love the people calling for suing the Corps. What sense does that make to sue a federal agency? We will all just end up paying for it.
Anymore, it seems like everyone has to place blame for everything that happens. Sometimes, life just gives you **** and you have to suck it up and deal with it. You can't control nature, you can only try to manage it.
I don't agree with your lack of blame directed at Corps of Engineers. They are very much to blame. Corps personnel are hired to manage the reservoirs. Allowing for a disaster of this magnitutude is grossly negligent. I believe the Corps could be investigated by the state in court and possible fines levied and someone could lose their jobs. Blaming the immediate weather of the last year or years does not wash. Beginning in 2003 when the lakes began to rise is when plans to avoid our present castrophe should have been scripted.
Mother nature is not to blame. Reservoir management is to blame. Those lakes need to be ready for all circumstances and can be made ready for all circumstances. They were not. Corps jobbers were on automatic pilot. Commuication from Peck to Gavins Point was on automatic pilot.
No one that lives below a dam should ever suffer flooding save for dam failure. Coordinated flowage did not happen. Hind sight is not worthy. Corps of Engineers are paid to keep those lakes and the region free of castrophe and they have the power to do that everyday by preparing for worse case scenario.
This type of mismanagement will never happen again. Safeguards have now been put into place. Our sufferings have improved coordination, communication along the Missouri drainage for years to come.
Please tell me where you received your engineering degree and why you aren't working for the Corps.
quote=SD4020;19724239]Disagree all you want. In 2002 and 2003 the "experts" thought it would take 40 years to have these dams filled to capacity. Well 8 years later we are here.
So what. Doesn't matter what pundents write. Corps personnel are paid to manage.
That is what it appears they are doing. I would like to see you attempt to do a better job... Maintaining interest from as many entities along the river. From recreation to navigation to water supplies for irrigation and drinking water, to shipping.
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Originally Posted by apple betty
The corps does not need to predict anything. They need to manage flowage to avoid catastrophes.
What? That is a logical falicy. Managing goes far beyond control of flows.
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Originally Posted by apple betty
Did you pay attention to the amount of rainfall in the month of May in Montana and the Dakota's? 600% above "average" precip? No one no matter how good they are can totally mitigate such runoff.
The weather of one year should never be in a position to impact the dams. .
What, what? Are you listening to yourself? So following your logic, we have a dry year the river runs dry and you have not electricty. You'd log on to rant but have no flipping power.
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Originally Posted by apple betty
Your logic dismisses coordinated water releases--a practice used all over the globe managing river systems. Manmade flooding need not occur..
This isn't a man made event. Man made would imply that they released all sorts of water or a dam failed with no regard to snow falls or rains.
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Originally Posted by apple betty
You're ranting..
What praytell are you doing then?
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Originally Posted by apple betty
Corps of Engineers mismanagement is responsible for the flooding because they could have prevented it.
Huh?
How?
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Originally Posted by apple betty
Also the state sued the corp in 2002 for low water levels. Not the same players are wanting to sue again.
Also how does the state have more power than a federal agency?
Huh?, states can pursue.
How? They can sue in federal court. But to conduct an investigation of the corp cannot be done by the state. The United States Congress can hold hearings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple betty
If you would look at the whole picture the corp is having to deal with flooding on the Mississippi, in fact they had to bust some levees in Missouri to save a town there... This was in early May.
[quote=dogwalker425;19725052]So, the Corps was supposed to foresee a year's worth of rain falling in a couple weeks? Everyone is bitching that they didn't release more sooner, but does anyone remember that a little river called the MISSISSIPPI was flooding? So I guess the Corps should have just upped the releases and made the situation worse for people dealing with that flood.
Over a nine year period, 2002-2011, the Corps could have managed their reservoirs without flooding lower reaches.
I also love the people calling for suing the Corps. What sense does that make to sue a federal agency? We will all just end up paying for it.
I did not call for suing. I ask for investigation.
Anymore, it seems like everyone has to place blame for everything that happens. Sometimes, life just gives you **** and you have to suck it up and deal with it. You can't control nature, you can only try to manage it.
The corps is paid to manage their charge. That's all. Wear the blame. Flooding did not need to occur. They have a 200 mile Oahe reservoir that did not fill up over night. Nor did it fill over a five year period. It filled over a nine year period. It was mismanaged. Yes, in that sense they can control nature, that is what they are paid to do. To manage water. The reservoirs could have absorbed this year's weather extreme handily had the Corps done their work
So, the Corps was supposed to foresee a year's worth of rain falling in a couple weeks? Everyone is bitching that they didn't release more sooner, but does anyone remember that a little river called the MISSISSIPPI was flooding? So I guess the Corps should have just upped the releases and made the situation worse for people dealing with that flood.
Over a nine year period, 2002-2011, the Corps could have managed their reservoirs without flooding lower reaches.
I also love the people calling for suing the Corps. What sense does that make to sue a federal agency? We will all just end up paying for it.
I did not call for suing. I ask for investigation.
Anymore, it seems like everyone has to place blame for everything that happens. Sometimes, life just gives you **** and you have to suck it up and deal with it. You can't control nature, you can only try to manage it.
The corps is paid to manage their charge. That's all. Wear the blame. Flooding did not need to occur. They have a 200 mile Oahe reservoir that did not fill up over night. Nor did it fill over a five year period. It filled over a nine year period. It was mismanaged. Yes, in that sense they can control nature, that is what they are paid to do. To manage water. The reservoirs could have absorbed this year's weather extreme handily had the Corps done their work
The state doesn't have the authority to investigate. That is something congress, the president, the defence secretary can order. The state lacks that scope and authority.
Also in case you forgot it is more than just a south dakota issue. Minot North Dakota is a ghost town. Iowa, nebraska, Missouri are also dealing with the effects. .
How was is mismanaged? Your reasoning has been flawed and continues to be flawed.
I really have no sympathy for people that feel the need to have houses on rivers....THERE IS ALWAYS THE POSSIBILITY FOR FLOODING......I saw a quote in the paper from one guy in the paper toward the beginning of the flooding saying that he chose to live near the river, he's not going to be lining up to the government asking for money because he chose to live there....I'm quite sure that will be the minority opinion in the matter....Like SD and dogwalker said, there was no way they could have known that all this precipitation would happen.....As far as I'm concerned, they are doing a great job protecting as much property as they have in South Dakota at least.....
Hydrologist state the system is working. Instead of water flows of 160,000 cfs we would without the dams have water flows of 400,000 to 600,000 cubic feet per second.
While it is bad, it could be of titianic scale. The article states they started dumping water in March, with the forecast that there would be large amounts of runoff.
why didn't they start dumping water in March 2005, 06, 07, 08, 09, or 10 instead of March 2011. Better yet, pick your month that would best alleviate the pressure on the upper dams and manage the flow in the Missouri/Mississippi system. Nope. The Corps figured if they ever ran into trouble with a catastrophic deluge, they'd just blame mother nature.
And that is exactly what the spin is.
Not our fault. We're paid to manage water, but who ever would have expected this. Its not our fault. We did everything we could.
I disagree.
No weather from one year should ever jeopardize the dams.
why didn't they start dumping water in March 2005, 06, 07, 08, 09, or 10 instead of March 2011. Better yet, pick your month that would best alleviate the pressure on the upper dams and manage the flow in the Missouri/Mississippi system. Nope. The Corps figured if they ever ran into trouble with a catastrophic deluge, they'd just blame mother nature.
And that is exactly what the spin is.
Not our fault. We're paid to manage water, but who ever would have expected this. Its not our fault. We did everything we could.
I disagree.
No weather from one year should ever jeopardize the dams.
In 2005 we were right square in the middle of a drought. This drought lasted until May of 2008. The last thing you really want to do is let more water out of your reserviors. . There were rural and tribal systems that had to extend their intakes beause they were out of the water. Boat ramps were closed, you couldn't put your boat in the water. And I bet you were complaining about the management then.
So no matter that the corp's actions you would argue about how they are handling things.
So no matter that the corp's actions you would argue about how they are handling things.
unintelligible--please try again
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