Texas; is it part of the South or the Southwest? (Houston: middle school, retirement)

[OberonKing]

Originally Posted by madrone2k

Good point. I know about the Tejanos, but I would add that their numbers weren't very large. Which is why the Mexican government of Santa Ana decided to let "Anglo-American" people settle in Texas, in hopes damping down the activities of native american tribes, some of whom were raiding farther into the interior of Mexico.

I used to work with a guy who was proud that his family lived in Texas on land that was granted to them by the king of Spain. I think he identified more with being of Spanish heritage than as Mexican.

Most Mexicans lived in the Rio Grande Valley, except for Spanish missions and garrison troops in different places, not always continuously. Mexicans wouldn't have been caught dead north of Tampico in the late 1700's and 1800's, Mexico was just a better place to live in those days. Mexico made such outrageous claims on former territories after they won their independence it's pretty hilarious, grandiose rubbish, and they changed govts. some 35 times between 1821 and 1850, thanks to Santa Anna being more than a little unhinged. Outside of Santa Fe no large Mexicans towns existed in what is now the U.S. Los Angeles had maybe 300 or so, if you count the Indian slaves.


My wife's family is also Spanish and owned a sizable land grant in West Texas, around San Angelo., and yes, they identify as Spanish, not Mexican. WAsn't worth much, Texas homesteads were huge compared to the average U.S. ones, 2,400 acres to 4,000 acres, iirc, since it took a lot of acres just to feed a cow and water was scarce. They struck oil on theirs in the late 1940's-1950's and are now pretty wealthy people nowadays.

[OberonKing]

Dallas is the western limit of 'The Cotton Kingdom'; that part of Texas is maybe one fifth to a quarter of the state. The rest are 'Southwestern' and 'western'. Since the 1980's, though, it is mostly Mexican and Yankee, and maybe 20% being native being a generous guess. Probably more people with Midwestern roots than Texans.

[rdz1979]

Originally Posted by OberonKing

Most Mexicans lived in the Rio Grande Valley, except for Spanish missions and garrison troops in different places, not always continuously. Mexicans wouldn't have been caught dead north of Tampico in the late 1700's and 1800's, Mexico was just a better place to live in those days. Mexico made such outrageous claims on former territories after they won their independence it's pretty hilarious, grandiose rubbish, and they changed govts. some 35 times between 1821 and 1850, thanks to Santa Anna being more than a little unhinged. Outside of Santa Fe no large Mexicans towns existed in what is now the U.S. Los Angeles had maybe 300 or so, if you count the Indian slaves.


My wife's family is also Spanish and owned a sizable land grant in West Texas, around San Angelo., and yes, they identify as Spanish, not Mexican. WAsn't worth much, Texas homesteads were huge compared to the average U.S. ones, 2,400 acres to 4,000 acres, iirc, since it took a lot of acres just to feed a cow and water was scarce. They struck oil on theirs in the late 1940's-1950's and are now pretty wealthy people nowadays.

Interesting, where did you get your information about the bolded part?

[OberonKing]

Originally Posted by rdz1979

Interesting, where did you get your information about the bolded part?

From various Texas history books and other sources, and this one is particularly good, but would probably bore people who aren't big history buffs. This book is one of them that I like:

https://archive.org/details/lettherebetowns00gilb


As an academic text it should be available cheap somewhere.

[slingshot]

It's not WHERE Texas 'is'. It's WHAT it is. Texas is part of the south AND part of the southwest.

[case44]

Originally Posted by spiritof68

Over Thanksgiving, I was having a discussion with my mother who lives in Dallas. We were debating whether Texas is a Southern or Southwestern State.

I've always regard anything west of Fort Worth part of the Southwest and the beginnings of West Texas.

Mom told me she thought the Southwest would include Dallas and Houston as well but Tyler not so much.

What do y'all think? South or Southwest?

We call this place The Great Southwest. Texas really bridges the gaps between southwestern and southern cultures. While you can't really be wrong to say that Texas is southern, I consider Texas southwestern.

[Westerner92]

Texas has almost 30 million people, had its own colonization and settlement patterns distinct from both American and Mexican patterns, had its own nationhood movement, has more than one distinct cuisine, has more than one distinct dialect, has more than one distinct music genre, has a handful of metro areas of over 1 million people, and is known on its own around the world. In most parts of the world, that would be considered a region of its own if not a sub-nationality.

As I see it, what makes Texas Texas is that Anglo and Hispanic cultures have not just coexisted, but blended for almost two centuries now with distinct influences from German and Czech traditions as well. It's like asking if Florida is Southern or Caribbean. It's both, yet neither.

[turf3]

Originally Posted by Westerner92

Texas has almost 30 million people, had its own colonization and settlement patterns distinct from both American and Mexican patterns, had its own nationhood movement, has more than one distinct cuisine, has more than one distinct dialect, has more than one distinct music genre, has a handful of metro areas of over 1 million people, and is known on its own around the world. In most parts of the world, that would be considered a region of its own if not a sub-nationality.

As I see it, what makes Texas Texas is that Anglo and Hispanic cultures have not just coexisted, but blended for almost two centuries now with distinct influences from German and Czech traditions as well. It's like asking if Florida is Southern or Caribbean. It's both, yet neither.

And yet people still, after dozens of these threads, insist that it's mandatory to place Texas in either the "South" or "Southwest" box. Despite the repeated and emphatic insistence of actual live Texans who know their state, its history, and its characteristics, that the question is meaningless and makes assumptions that are not supported by reality.


HEY EVERYONE!


There is a region located BETWEEN the American South and the American Southwest. It's called...


wait for it....


Texas!

[Franko]

East Texas is part of the south. West of Highway 35 is part of the southwest.

[atxcio]

Southwest Airlines, Southwestern University, Southwest Conference, South by Southwest...