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Yield signs are only good in areas where there is a view in both directions with little or no visual obstruction and traffic is not usually very heavy Anywhere in built up areas where traffic is usually busy at cross roads then traffic lights or Stop signs are essential to allow vehicles to enter or cross from the side road. No poor SOB driving a large military vehicle or any other vehicle for that matter should have to put life and limb at risk "creeping slowly into the intersection" when it "might appear" that it's safe to do so. Traffic lights or Stop signs on cross roads and side roads are the only things that work, I feel sorry for the personnel from that AF base who have to deal with such situations
I disagree about the need for Stop signs. In North America we use almost exclusively Stop signs. The results are that drivers treat Stop signs as Yield / Give Way signs, and just roll through them. Stop signs also create situations where drivers stop, but then don't yield / give way to other traffic. Yield / Give Way signs are just as good if not better then Stop signs.
Yield signs or Stop signs at blind intersections are pointless anyway. Since when you stop at the Stop Line you are too far back to see approaching traffic. So stopping at the Stop Line serves no useful purpose. The yield / give way action happens past the Stop Line anyway.
To make all this work all drivers have to be driving defensively. Unfortunately defensive driving seems to becoming a lost art in both the US and UK, as this incident proves. Just because you have the right of way doesn't mean you should take it. When approaching a blind intersection or driveway on a main road, you should always be looking for cars pulling out and be prepared to slow down or stop as need be to avoid hitting them, without swerving and losing control of your vehicle. Because if you don't, the results will be a bad crash and people will get hurt, including the passengers in your car.
If you don't like the police and CPS Lawyers decision to prosecute then that's tough.
If you don't like the court finding him not guilty, TOUGH. Justice was served despite the corrupt police and prosecutors, prosecuting an innocent person.
If you don't like the court finding him not guilty, TOUGH. Justice was served despite the corrupt police and prosecutors, prosecuting an innocent person.
I have no problem with the Courts verdict, and in terms of the case in Harrogate, Oakes was merely charged with Careless driving rather than dangerous driving, whilst the Magistrates only have limited powers when compared to the Crown Courts. So even if found guilty the sentence would have most likely have been a fine and possible driving ban.
The real problem is when Americans flee the country in order to avoid our judicial system such as in the case of Anne Sacoolas and more recently in terms of Isaac Calderon or when the US military tries to seek jurisdiction in cases where British citizens have been killed in road accidents on British roads, as was the case in relation to Matthew Dunn.
You are the one claiming that the prosecution of Americans is impartial and frivolous, and you are the one questioning the police, prosecutors and courts decisions, and have made numerous posts alluding to the fact that the Police and Lawyers at the CPS are somehow inept and don't understand the law relating to junctions.
All I have ever suggested is that Americans who commit crimes in this country face the Courts in the same way as any one else.
US forces also need to heed recommendations regarding driver training on being posted to the UK, given the number of accidents, injuries and deaths over the decades, something that previous Coroners Courts have alluded to.
There have also been issues relating to the US authorities use of legal loopholes to avoid the law and agreements that state that national law should be respected in relation to the Visiting Forces Act and Vienna Convention, although thankfully the legal loophole in relation to Croughton has now been addressed.
Last edited by Brave New World; 12-17-2023 at 09:50 AM..
I disagree about the need for Stop signs. In North America we use almost exclusively Stop signs. The results are that drivers treat Stop signs as Yield / Give Way signs, and just roll through them. Stop signs also create situations where drivers stop, but then don't yield / give way to other traffic. Yield / Give Way signs are just as good if not better then Stop signs.
Yield signs or Stop signs at blind intersections are pointless anyway. Since when you stop at the Stop Line you are too far back to see approaching traffic. So stopping at the Stop Line serves no useful purpose. The yield / give way action happens past the Stop Line anyway.
To make all this work all drivers have to be driving defensively. Unfortunately defensive driving seems to becoming a lost art in both the US and UK, as this incident proves. Just because you have the right of way doesn't mean you should take it. When approaching a blind intersection or driveway on a main road, you should always be looking for cars pulling out and be prepared to slow down or stop as need be to avoid hitting them, without swerving and losing control of your vehicle. Because if you don't, the results will be a bad crash and people will get hurt, including the passengers in your car.
That is very dependent on where you live/drive in North America. Everywhere I have lived, for instance, drivers near universally respect stop signs and do come to a complete stop, which is even more useful at busy intersections where all way stop signs ensure some order. Contrast this to some places where I've visited (especially on the U.S. West Coast), where rolling stops have become the norm, even if they are illegal.
That is very dependent on where you live/drive in North America. Everywhere I have lived, for instance, drivers near universally respect stop signs and do come to a complete stop, which is even more useful at busy intersections where all way stop signs ensure some order. Contrast this to some places where I've visited (especially on the U.S. West Coast), where rolling stops have become the norm, even if they are illegal.
Yes very true. I've never had a problem with stop signs where I live. Everybody seems to respect them. On the other hand it seems that the less affluent the neighborhood the more drivers tend to ignore the signs. For years insurance companies used to base their insurance rates on neighborhoods. It was called "Red lining" although it's now been abolished I believe.
I've driven in a couple of different places in the world. The worst place was in the Paris Metro area.
Considering the huge amount of traffic in southern California I can give pretty high marks for the quality of driving overall.
I have no problem with the Courts verdict, and in terms of the case in Harrogate, Oakes was merely charged with Careless driving rather than dangerous driving, whilst the Magistrates only have limited powers when compared to the Crown Courts. So even if found guilty the sentence would have most likely have been a fine and possible driving ban.
The real problem is when Americans flee the country in order to avoid our judicial system such as in the case of Anne Sacoolas and more recently in terms of Isaac Calderon or when the US military tries to seek jurisdiction in cases where British citizens have been killed in road accidents on British roads, as was the case in relation to Matthew Dunn.
You are the one claiming that the prosecution of Americans is impartial and frivolous, and you are the one questioning the police, prosecutors and courts decisions, and have made numerous posts alluding to the fact that the Police and Lawyers at the CPS are somehow inept and don't understand the law relating to junctions.
All I have ever suggested is that Americans who commit crimes in this country face the Courts in the same way as any one else.
US forces also need to heed recommendations regarding driver training on being posted to the UK, given the number of accidents, injuries and deaths over the decades, something that previous Coroners Courts have alluded to.
There have also been issues relating to the US authorities use of legal loopholes to avoid the law and agreements that state that national law should be respected in relation to the Visiting Forces Act and Vienna Convention, although thankfully the legal loophole in relation to Croughton has now been addressed.
I disagree about the need for Stop signs. In North America we use almost exclusively Stop signs. The results are that drivers treat Stop signs as Yield / Give Way signs, and just roll through them. Stop signs also create situations where drivers stop, but then don't yield / give way to other traffic. Yield / Give Way signs are just as good if not better then Stop signs.
Yield signs or Stop signs at blind intersections are pointless anyway. Since when you stop at the Stop Line you are too far back to see approaching traffic. So stopping at the Stop Line serves no useful purpose. The yield / give way action happens past the Stop Line anyway.
To make all this work all drivers have to be driving defensively. Unfortunately defensive driving seems to becoming a lost art in both the US and UK, as this incident proves. Just because you have the right of way doesn't mean you should take it. When approaching a blind intersection or driveway on a main road, you should always be looking for cars pulling out and be prepared to slow down or stop as need be to avoid hitting them, without swerving and losing control of your vehicle. Because if you don't, the results will be a bad crash and people will get hurt, including the passengers in your car.
Not a good idea to just roll through stop signs. Not stopping limits your awareness of approaching traffic on the cross streets and a good chance of getting badly clipped on the side by a vehicle suddenly appearing out of nowhere and traveling at speed
Injuring a person through driving negligence can get you a lawsuit in the US, a big raise in your insurance premiums or even cancellation and points on your license.
I normally come to a halt just in front of the line then very slowly ease forward to the actual edge of the cross road, check traffic both ways and then do the turn.
There are always people who will ignore signs and even traffic light signals and it's a good bet to drive with the attitude that the drivers around you are idiots and capable of doing something stupid at any moment which is defensive driving at it's best
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