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That is very dependent on where you live/drive in North America. Everywhere I have lived, for instance, drivers near universally respect stop signs and do come to a complete stop, which is even more useful at busy intersections where all way stop signs ensure some order. Contrast this to some places where I've visited (especially on the U.S. West Coast), where rolling stops have become the norm, even if they are illegal.
So you are saying that if you come to a Stop sign and no cars are approaching from any direction and no cops are around, you are going to come to a complete stop for no reason? I don't believe it. Stop signs are like speed limits in the US. Nobody obeys them, not even the people who claim to. Studies show that Stop sign compliance is 70%, but those numbers are way inflated to justify stop signs. The real numbers are much lower. But even if you believe that ridiculously inflated number, that still means that 30% of drivers don't stop.
Anyway not stopping for Stop signs doesn't make you a bad driver. Your concentration should be on looking both ways and yielding to other traffic. Not on making sure you bring your car to a complete stop. Especially at a blind intersection, where you can't see approaching traffic from behind the Stop Line anyway.
As for witness statements in relation to the case at the Magistrates in front of a single District Judge (and not a Crown Court and Jury), the witness statements described Mr Oakes’s driving in the moments before the crash as “aggressive and inpatient” and it was suggested that he had caused the accident because he hadn’t checked that the way was clear before pulling out of the junction.
The Judge however noted the fact that the view was obscured by a post and that Oakes had a previous clean driving record, and came to the conclusion that the case was difficult to prove due to the Oakes view being obscured and despite the testimony of some eye witnesses in relation to Oakes driving manner.
If the accident occurred at this location, it's not surprising. In the Google Maps picture there's some tosser parked facing the wrong way, that car should be crushed, and 2 more cars parked where there should be no parking allowed. The design of the exit is poor, with no way to easily see traffic. And how would Oakes have been driving aggressively and impatiently inside the grounds of Ashville College? https://www.google.com/maps/@53.9740...8192?entry=ttu
If the accident occurred at this location, it's not surprising. In the Google Maps picture there's some tosser parked facing the wrong way, that car should be crushed, and 2 more cars parked where there should be no parking allowed. The design of the exit is poor, with no way to easily see traffic. And how would Oakes have been driving aggressively and impatiently inside the grounds of Ashville College? https://www.google.com/maps/@53.9740...8192?entry=ttu
The case has been dealt with by the local Magistrates Courts, and I have no problem with that, however I do have a problem with the number of accidents over the decades involving US forces, as have previous Coroners.
The recent Issac Calderon case, where the accused fled back to the US and ignored the Courts, has caused yet more anger in the UK, just as the Sacoolas case previously did, although that's not to say that the locals in Harrogate including the families of those injured in the case you are referring to are not extremely angry.
So you are saying that if you come to a Stop sign and no cars are approaching from any direction and no cops are around, you are going to come to a complete stop for no reason? I don't believe it. Stop signs are like speed limits in the US. Nobody obeys them, not even the people who claim to. Studies show that Stop sign compliance is 70%, but those numbers are way inflated to justify stop signs. The real numbers are much lower. But even if you believe that ridiculously inflated number, that still means that 30% of drivers don't stop.
Anyway not stopping for Stop signs doesn't make you a bad driver. Your concentration should be on looking both ways and yielding to other traffic. Not on making sure you bring your car to a complete stop. Especially at a blind intersection, where you can't see approaching traffic from behind the Stop Line anyway.
I would be interested to know what a driver would tell a cop who caught him ignoring a Stop sign. He could use the time to explain his philosophy on Stop signs while the cop is busy writing up a 250 dollar traffic ticket
Well I stop at stop signs, I got a camera ticket years ago, & have no desire to get one again.
1. You admit to violating traffic laws.
2. You admit that you only stop at Stop signs to avoid getting tickets.
3. You have nothing to worry about. There is no such thing as a Stop sign camera anywhere to the best of my knowledge.
Anyway my point still stands, that nobody obeys them, not even the people who claim to. You claim to, but you also admit to getting tickets. Which just proves my point.
Any cop will tell you that he can give a ticket to anyone he wants to. Every driver on the road is violating at least one traffic law at any given time. Whether they know it or not.
1. You admit to violating traffic laws.
2. You admit that you only stop at Stop signs to avoid getting tickets.
3. You have nothing to worry about. There is no such thing as a Stop sign camera anywhere to the best of my knowledge.
Anyway my point still stands, that nobody obeys them, not even the people who claim to. You claim to, but you also admit to getting tickets. Which just proves my point.
Any cop will tell you that he can give a ticket to anyone he wants to. Every driver on the road is violating at least one traffic law at any given time. Whether they know it or not.
Traffic laws are upheld by the police, prosecution services and courts in the UK and all anyone asks is that US Service Personnel adhere to our laws and face our courts when deemed to have committed traffic offences on our roads.
In this respect, I think the UK authorities and Courts are more than capable of deciding on such issues, and we don't need others to tell us how to apply the law in our own country.
As for US Serviceman Issac Calderon, it is believed he has been charged with serious injury by dangerous driving following a crash in Herefordshire, which left Elizabeth Donowho unable to walk for six weeks.
Calderon has so far fled Britain and has not attended Court hearings, and his family back in Texas have set up a Crowdfunding site in relation to any legal fight, which I presume may include extradition.
Failure to adhere to our laws or to even attend our Courts when required to, is simply not acceptable, and fleeing the country is also not acceptable.
I would suggest that it's now time for Parliament to step in and review arrangements in relation to US visiting forces in Britain, as it's Parliament's duty to look after and protect the interests of British citizens including their own voting constituents.
If a signs says "Jump off a cliff", do you jump off a cliff?
All anyone is asking is that you adhere to our rule of law and our courts when in our country.
If you can't do that then you shouldn't be here.
Last edited by Brave New World; 01-13-2024 at 04:28 AM..
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