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As already pointed out, European members of NATO, spend over $300 Billion, which is more than Russia and Chinese defence spending combined, and EU members have around four times that population of Russia, at nearly 600 million compared to around 147 million Russians.
Whilst Russia can't even hold small regions of Ukraine, such is the poor state of it's conventional forces.
European NATO members already has 645 nuclear weapons, however this could be expanded if the US left Europe.
As for US defence spending it only equates to 5% of US Defence spending and is dwarfed by European overseas aid.
There are millions of European NATO troops in Europe, compared to a based level of 63,000 US Service Personnel, however this is now 100,000 due to recent deployments.
Europe would find it far easier to live without US bases and forces than countries in the Far East such as Japan and South Korea,
Europe must also be prepared for the possible future withdrawal of the US, as US politics is very divisive and you have a lot of radical politicians such as former President Trump, who genuinely thought about leaving NATO.
So say in about ten years Putin or a successor really spends billions of roubles in modernizing, training and re-quipping the Russian military then decides sometime in 2032 to have a go at Poland, Romania and the Baltic States NATO without any US support could handle it perfectly well?
Don't make me laugh.
Once the war in Ukraine is settled one way or another and everybody gets back to being buddy buddies again because money and business always speak far louder than words Russia will once again be racking up the billions of Euros from oil and natural gas shipments to most of Europe and other countries. Would the UK / EU in return have the amount of money required to spend on defence needs? I doubt it
Anyway sorry to have dragged the thread off subject. No more from me
Last edited by James Austen; 10-13-2022 at 03:00 PM..
He has shown that he does, but I think this thread should stick to the Harry Dunn case, which was a tragedy. Making it political is pure grandstanding.
I think its the opposite? He seems to be suggesting that the UK has some kind of 'responsibilities' towards Europe? As if Europe is akin to the USA?
So say in about ten years Putin or a successor really spends billions of roubles in modernizing, training and re-quipping the Russian military then decides sometime in 2032 to have a go at Poland, Romania and the Baltic States NATO without any US support could handle it perfectly well?
Don't make me laugh.
Once the war in Ukraine is settled one way or another and everybody gets back to being buddy buddies again because money and business always speak far louder than words Russia will once again be racking up the billions of Euros from oil and natural gas shipments to most of Europe and other countries. Would the UK / EU in return have the amount of money required to spend on defence needs? I doubt it
Anyway sorry to have dragged the thread off subject. No more from me
You seem to be under the impression that NATO is just the US? How very 'American' of you! Tell us why NATO would be incapable of defending Poland, Romania and the Baltic States without the US exactly? Russia can't even overcome Ukraine alone!
The "lady ' that caused the accident will be lashed 50 times a day for 30 consecutive days ,if she survives the lashings she will then be free.
Will this be enough punishment to satisfy you or should she be 'drawn and quarted ' you Brits are good at that.
The 'lady' is subject to British justice the same way as any other human being on the planet, what makes you think she should get 'special'' treatment?...............Because she is from the US?
I think its the opposite? He seems to be suggesting that the UK has some kind of 'responsibilities' towards Europe? As if Europe is akin to the USA?
well you can argue the politics with each other all you want, but imo, it is disrespectful to the original topic of the thread. A young man lost his life. Yet you want to bicker.
well you can argue the politics with each other all you want, but imo, it is disrespectful to the original topic of the thread. A young man lost his life. Yet you want to bicker.
So say in about ten years Putin or a successor really spends billions of roubles in modernizing, training and re-quipping the Russian military then decides sometime in 2032 to have a go at Poland, Romania and the Baltic States NATO without any US support could handle it perfectly well?
Don't make me laugh.
Once the war in Ukraine is settled one way or another and everybody gets back to being buddy buddies again because money and business always speak far louder than words Russia will once again be racking up the billions of Euros from oil and natural gas shipments to most of Europe and other countries. Would the UK / EU in return have the amount of money required to spend on defence needs? I doubt it
Anyway sorry to have dragged the thread off subject. No more from me
I will take this debate over to the Special Relationship thread, as it is disrespectful to use this thread, which is about the death of a British teen and the subsequent legal cases.
The "lady ' that caused the accident will be lashed 50 times a day for 30 consecutive days ,if she survives the lashings she will then be free.
Will this be enough punishment to satisfy you or should she be 'drawn and quarted ' you Brits are good at that.
It wasnt her careless driving... it was the fact she ran off as didnt want to face what she had done.... Drawn and quartered tut tut werent we all savages in the past.... think about your own end of the pond. your just being silly..... She should pay for her crime.... the one of being a coward.. she now has a lifetime to think of how she ran off after because of her own daftness she killed a young man who had his life to live.. then ran from justice. and all she d have got was a slap on the wrist... deplorable...
well you can argue the politics with each other all you want, but imo, it is disrespectful to the original topic of the thread. A young man lost his life. Yet you want to bicker.
Well I'm not 'bickering', the topic at hand is EXACTLY about this young man. I'm interested to know why a war between the Ukraine and Russia gives some kind of justification of what this woman did? Personally I fail to see it.
It wasnt her careless driving... it was the fact she ran off as didnt want to face what she had done.... Drawn and quartered tut tut werent we all savages in the past.... think about your own end of the pond. your just being silly..... She should pay for her crime.... the one of being a coward.. she now has a lifetime to think of how she ran off after because of her own daftness she killed a young man who had his life to live.. then ran from justice. and all she d have got was a slap on the wrist... deplorable...
She didn't "run off." Her own government refused to waive her diplomatic immunity, and shortly afterward she was removed from the UK by her own government via one of their military bases.
An individual cannot waive her own diplomatic immunity. Only her home government can.
People forget that, when Northamptonshire police came to interview Mrs. Sacoolas at her home the day after the accident, there were US State Department lawyers and other US government representatives there, in person, at the interview. Mrs. Sacoolas would not have been permitted to make a move without permission from her husband's employer, who ultimately was the State Department.
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