Utah Valley - Can we be allowed to share our experiences? (Saratoga Springs: purchases, self moving)

[sandyrattus]

Luna Obscura, (Obscure Moon)
I read your kind post and I am sorry to hear that you, your hubby, and partucularly your son are being so mistreated because you are LDS in a place that is clearly not LDS. In my govt. service, I have been to the South quite often for a week's stay at a time. Often enough when we introduce ourselves and state where we are from. When they hear "Salt Lake City," they seem to notice it. During the week, a local or two, from whatever city it is broaches the subject of "personal religious beliefs." What they mean is "am I a Mormon?" How strange and yet how consistent in that it is like UT with the hatred being directed from some Evangelical Christian POV, instead of from the Mormons. Of course, I rush to my defense and proclaim proudly that I am not a Mormon! Why should I take a double ration of mistreatment from the Southern Evangelicals for being a Mormon when we are persecuted in Happy Valley because we are not Mormons. The last thing in the world I am going to do is be persecuted for being a Mormon. Then, once they were certain I was not LDS, talk over lunch, "why Mitt Romney is never going to be President!" I certainly would never vote for Mitt Romney and now I will admit after living here over 12 years that because he is a Mormon is one of the reasons that I would not vote for him. How could I vote for a person that opresses me and were extremely unkind to our collegiate daughters that really quietly dislike Mormons to a great degree. Yet it is very sad to see and realize that hatred based upon religion or skin color, which are both big deals in Utah, is a double edge knife that cuts both ways and leaves terrible wounds,

I am so sorry to hear that they slashed your tires several times. Tires are expensive and it must have been very humiliating. We have only had our house egged once. We have only had the burning dog excrement trick three times. 10 years ago, while taking a walk with my wife and daughters a Mormon accused us of "stinking up the neighborhood and called my wife the n word." Our daughters started crying on the spot and the fat Mormon and I got into a fight. I am happy to say that he got the worst of it by far. The police came and gave us the choice to "arrest each other" and I wanted to do it but the fat Latter Day Saint with broken nose did not want to do it. I knew that in court I would be tried by Mormons but I would have gotten the NAACP and any other coverage we could find. No arbitration. Just,"case dropped." We have never gotten so much as a look since then. Two years ago the fellow apologized and I accepted it, but my wife and daughters did not. We have kind of grown-old in this neighborhood and do have some LDS neighbors that are friendly although most are not. It made our marriage and family stronger as it we were in kind of like an alien world and only had each other. I am somewhat bothered that one daughter, after graduating from Catholic high school, went to college outside of UT and declined a "full academic ride here." The other attends Westminster College and "knows how to play the game." There are many good things about SLC. SLC is like leaving Mormonville without leaving. Provo is a different case. You will be quite at home there. However, I do understand that the Mormons have kind of a "caste system" based on "pioneer heritage" with the decendents of those that pulled the hand carts at the top of the heap, followed by those that rode on the Conastoga Wagons, then the "non-utah Mormons and converts, followed by non-Mormon white folks, and last on the Mormon totem pole are non-white non-Mormons like my family.

I am happy to hear that you will be leaving the really wretched place where you live and be returning to Happy Valley. It is my prayer to you, that you not internalize your anger on the people that mistreated you and your family by becoming people like the people that used to make our lives so miserable and prompted our one of our beloved daughters to go to college outside of the Zion Curtain.

On that word regarding the hate. If I have learned nothing else by living in UT as a religious and and ethnic minority-I have learned that hate cuts randomly both ways. I have also learned to appreciate when the Mormons get on their nazi like "persecuted majority" bandwagon that they are right to a very large extent-in that the Evangelical Christians will never elect Mitt Romney President of the U.S. Howver, after living in UT so long, neither would we.

God bless you and your family for your kindness.

V/r,

Rattus

[stycotl]

all i can say to the above is, "ok..."

[MrAnderson]

Originally Posted by sandyrattus

However, I do understand that the Mormons have kind of a "caste system" based on "pioneer heritage" with the decendents of those that pulled the hand carts at the top of the heap, followed by those that rode on the Conastoga Wagons, then the "non-utah Mormons and converts, followed by non-Mormon white folks, and last on the Mormon totem pole are non-white non-Mormons like my family

I've never heard that in my life. And I've heard it all my friend.

[Cycle]

To everyone who has followed this post:
As the original poster, I thought it would be a good idea to come back and give everyone an update. My husband found employment in Illinois and we now live South of Chicago. I cannot tell you how comfortable we are being back in the 'real world'. While I have never stated that I felt it was an issue with anything other than my neighborhood, it is amazing the difference we feel everywhere. Not just the neighbors, but the schools and businesses, fast food places, grocery stores, traffic, news...it is just sooooo normal! People wave and smile at each other or they are rude to everyone because they are having a bad day and it makes me laugh. I have not had a cashier be nice to the person in front of me, then be nice to me until they scan my coffee and turn rude, then be nice to the person behind me, if they are rude to me they are rude to everyone .

In my neighborhood, right across the street from me is a Muslim family, with all the outward appearances of being muslim. They are so nice, their five year old son is best friends with my five year old daughter and they are of Palestinian descent, my husband loves arabic food and so the mom makes my husband a special dish every week. The neighbor kitty corner from us is some kind of christian but I have no idea which as it has never come up in conversation other than for her to say they are going to church on Sunday. They are a super nice older couple that always take the time to come out and talk and sometimes offer a beer when we are working in the yard. The two houses down from us on the left are both Catholic and I only know that because they both asked me to make Communion cakes for their kids, all their kids are the same ages as ours and they play together EVERY single day, sometimes at our house and sometimes at theirs. The neighbor in back that shares our back yard has three little ones and they are super nice. We have been here for a little over nine months now and everyone still is so nice, we have had neighborhood barbeques where everyone is invited out in the yards, people come over and ask to take my kids places and we offer to do the same and they let them go with us. It really is all the small simple things that make the difference. Are we all friends, no we are neighbors and we are decent and civilized to each other, but the funniest thing of all is that nobody has asked us what religion we are! They don't care! We are good neighbors and they are good neighbors back!

The atmosphere is so friendly and customer service is fantastic...I guess I did not realize how bad customer service was in Utah, I mean I know I have commented on it in the past, but it was even worse than I thought it was at the time. People want my business and they treat me as if they want my business, I am not an inconvenience to them like I always felt in Utah. I don't even know how to describe the oppressive feeling of living in Utah, people get on here and claim it isn't true, but I have to tell you there have been plenty of people who recognize it exists and it's isn't just the non-mormons, even mormons will say they wouldn't live in Utah County. How sad is that...I can't explain it because it is much more about the atmosphere and what has been created by the Church which permeates every facet of daily life.

I am so happy I am in familiar territory even though I am living in a state I had never been before, it was like coming home and we are comfortable. I am grateful for my experience in Utah though because I know without a doubt that neither myself or anyone in my family will ever discriminate against another person just because of their religion. In fact I would go so far as to say that every member of my family will take an active interest in other people because of their own experiences. It was very hard to go through, but I think the whole experience made us better, more tolerant and more open minded people and maybe we can influence others with our stories.

Thank you everyone for so much support and please continue to share your own experiences. Even though people keep getting on here and saying "Oh my Gosh that can't be happening" many of us know it is true and need a place to set the record straight.

Sincerely,
Cycle

[osugirl2]

Cycle,

That's awesome that you are loving Illinois! I hope it continues to be a great fit for you and your family

[Mauka]

This thread is a trip, makes my eyes go cross.

I personally would never live in Utah County, but have friends who do. A couple are artists/bohemian types, and they do really well there.

I personally believe Utah County is big enough now that pretty much anyone can find their place in the sun.

[Cycle]

Mauka,
Not sure why an open honest discussion would make your eyes go cross, but I am glad that you have some friends that do really well in Utah County. As for your personal opinion, you already stated that you would never live in Utah County, I am not sure you can relate on any level to what it was like for me and my family. Thanks for the response though, I do appreciate the support.
Cycle

[Cycle]

osugirl2
Thank you very much, my kids certainly deserve to be happy and accepted, it is nice to feel normal again
Cycle

[Mauka]

Originally Posted by Cycle

Mauka,
Not sure why an open honest discussion would make your eyes go cross, but I am glad that you have some friends that do really well in Utah County. As for your personal opinion, you already stated that you would never live in Utah County, I am not sure you can relate on any level to what it was like for me and my family. Thanks for the response though, I do appreciate the support.
Cycle

I wouldn't live there because it is too far from Skiing and mountain biking. I know it's really close, when you compare it to other cities, but it's way too far for me. I like to ride out my door.

Makes my eyes go cross just because the experiences seem so extreme. I am not judging you.

Just the other day my wife and I were discussing if we could live in Utah County as inactive Mormons. I brought up the "least fun" designation and we decided it was baloney. You do have hiking, and skiing, and fishing, and a lake, all within 20 minutes, you can have fun there if you want to.

And, again, I have serious artist friends who live there, very bohemian types,and they seem to be thriving.

Nothing against you.

[Cycle]

Mauka,
Thank you for explaining that, I appreciate it!
Cycle