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You're still thinking in terms of money/capitalism. A subsistence economy/society doesn't mean everyone has to do everything. One could make guns, another tools, etc., but as they're needed, not in the consumerist/capitalist mindset of make more and more and more for the sake of money. The point is, instead of this mindset that's focused on profit and constant growth (constant growth is not sustainable by any means), a better system would provide what's needed and that's it. Somewhat like the small villages before big empires and cities came about. Though, I have made some of my own guns, I've done a little blacksmithing of my own, and I'm going to give it a try making some clothes out of the furs I catch in AK. You have it backwards, because a consumerist/capitalist society only creates more garbage for landfills, poverty, and numerous other problems ranging from pollution to depletion of resources.
VTers should be very careful who they elect into office because all it takes is one developer to fill the pockets of one influential greedy politician and this state might as well call itself Long Island. Downstate NY'ers choose to work harder for their luxuries or to retire early. Vermonters work much harder just to keep a roof over their head. Do you agree? I think there could be a happy medium between the two lifestyles. VT can do without massive development, anti-gun laws and high taxes, especially school taxes. I have adjusted to living in a pro-hunting. Trapping on the other hand is bit barbaric and extremely cruel.
VTers should be very careful who they elect into office because all it takes is one developer to fill the pockets of one influential greedy politician and this state might as well call itself Long Island. Downstate NY'ers choose to work harder for their luxuries or to retire early. Vermonters work much harder just to keep a roof over their head. Do you agree? I think there could be a happy medium between the two lifestyles. VT can do without massive development, anti-gun laws and high taxes, especially school taxes. I have adjusted to living in a pro-hunting.
Not really, too much opposition now for one greedy developer to do so. Areas like Burlington and Rutland and some other areas, yeah, it could and does happen, there's more pro-development feelings there, but statewide, nope. As I stated high taxes is the biggest problem in VT. The main reason why I'm going to Alaska; I'll be surrounded by wilderness (less than 1 percent of the land is privately owned in AK so there's a lot of land that won't be developed in the near future, including a big state forest bordering my land), an even lower population density, and being reasonably remote and in the unorganized borough, no property taxes on my land, making my self-sufficient goal a real possibility if I do well enough in the different environment. The high taxes make things difficult in VT. I'm not big on the "luxuries" that NY'ers are interested in. I'm more interested in a self-sufficient lifestyle. Consumerism disgusts me. However, I could in VT supply everything I need myself (I really could given enough land), but, I'd still need money to pay the outrageous taxes. That just makes what I want to do very difficult. I tend to favor homeschooling and private schooling over public schools. I'd prefer the government stays out of schooling for the most part. Education is one of the biggest reasons for heavy taxes. Personally, I want an end to property taxes entirely. If there must be public schools, fund them more fairly by an income tax or a flat tax charged only to users of the schools.
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Trapping on the other hand is bit barbaric and extremely cruel.
Not at all. If you went along my trapline you'd see that it's not. The animal rights people are totally ignorant and lie. Yes there are some bad trappers who do things wrong, intentionally or not, resulting in cruelty, but that's the case with farms, as well. Trapping done by a good trapper is not cruel/barbaric. Trapping via foothold traps is what's been used for the various re-introductions of extirpated animals such as wolves, otters, etc. I think as more states require attending a trapper education course and passing a test, the real bad ones will be weeded out over time, unless they poach.
My move to Vermont has been an epiphany. Because I don't have a ton of cash I live in a small place and drive a couple of old cars. I've been forced to give up a more luxurious lifestyle, and you know what? I'm happier than ever. I live in a very small log cabin, which five years ago would have seem unacceptable. Now I wonder what the heck I was doing in such a big house before.
Cars? I don't care who makes them or what they look like as long as they get up my driveway. Instead of sitting in suburban traffic I can drive at a nice pace and see the Adirindacks to my left and the Green Mountains to my right. I sit on my porch in the morning and just enjoy nature. It's peaceful, it's serene and it's what I was made for (not to mention its free). I can breathe. It's as if a weight was lifted from my shoulder.
Meanwhile people all over the country are going into debt and working overtime to buy a BMW instead of a Honda so their neighbors won't think they are poor. Buying palaces that do nothing but ensure family members don't have to sit near each other. Commuting 90 minutes to work, stuck in a sea of red and white headlights. You know, the American dream. As Suze Orman says, "trying to impress people you don't know or even like".
Yeah the taxes are high here, so get a small place. You know, maybe the size of houses in every country in the world except America. Drive a cheaper car. Give up a few material items so you bask in the beauty of this place.
Yeah, we probably get suckered by a few freeloaders, but we do our best to help those in need. I'd rather err in this direction.
Vermonters like to talk about flatlanders, but flatlanders are the ones that actually choose to live here. And are happy here. Half of the native electricians, furnace guys etc that come to my house tell me they can't
wait to leave. I have never heard such conspiracy theories about politicians. My advice would be to leave. See the rest of the world.
You'll soon see Vermont has a lot to offer.
Yeah I would love to see laws that would require people clean up their yards, out of the respect to the land, which IS Vermont. I couldn't care less who's on the deed. I don't care about anyone's rights. If you want to talk about rights and the pursuit of happiness, how about the right to not live by homes with rusty bedsprings and rusty refrigerators in the front yard. I'm willing to give up some of my freedom to make sure we look after this place. I love Vermont and want to keep it beautiful.
I'm back to basics not because I was disciplined enough to give up everything, I had to make a few adjustments. I have plenty to eat and live in a palace, compared to most of the world. I get a kick out of buying local foods and helping another family. When I'm on my deathbed I won't be thinking about money or stock. I'll think about sitting on the porch with my wife every moring and just being blown away by the beauty of it all.
This place has been a blessing.
WOW! This is beautiful. That sounds EXACTLY like my ideal/style of living. Good to see other people still know how to live and what to live for. I thought my boyfriend and I were the ONLY ones left with this idealogy. We are planning to live in VT for a few months IN a few months, Cali for a short period of time, hopefully Montana, and eventually to Colorado for good. Thanks for showing me there's other people like you in places we want to go. Good luck and keep living the dream. And VT, take advantage of all the beauty you have - how can anyone complain about living there? I guess for the same reasons I don't love NY. Where in VT do you live? Could you PM me about it? I'd love to hear my options in VT to live like this - Thanks so much!!
Well, I lived in Vermont for a while and now live in Austin so I can perhaps shed some light onto this for you.
Vermont is naturally beautiful and socially free-spirited for the most part. But depending on where you live you may have some difficulty finding young people (I am assuming you are young) to hang out with, as well as jobs. The cost of living in Vermont is about the same as, or higher than Austin's, but the jobs are just not there for the most part.
As far as the weather goes, it has been over 100 degrees here in Austin for a total of 36 days this year so far, and the "hot period" is just starting up now. As bad as this is, it is not as bad as a 5-6 month long gray, freezing winter that will drive you to isolation and possibly the crazy house-- especially if you live by yourself. At least here you can go swimming when it is 100+ outside.
As far as the countryside goes-- Vermont, hands-down. There is a lot of sprawl in Austin, but as soon as you leave Vermont's town centers there are miles of unspoiled pastoral and forested landscapes. Austin is also surrounded by Texas. So instead of Vermont's hippies and artisans in the woods you get cowboys and evangelicals who will shoot to kill if you trespass on their land. In contrast, a lot of private landowners in Vermont let whoever they want use their land as long as you respect it. Also, there are some nice swimming holes in Austin but they are slowly getting encroached on and polluted by the sprawl.
Overall, I like Vermont more than Austin, but Austin is a better place for where I am in life. When I find someone to settle down with, I want to find a place and raise my family in Vermont. But being young, single and without a lot of cash to throw around, Austin is a better fit for me right now.
Wow I'm always saying I want to move to Burlington or Austin, because they are big cities, but they are free.
Do they have good music production/audio engineering schools their?
Yeah I am young, 19.
Thanks for the info. I love Christmas but hate winter. I like it in the 60s and 70s but hate humidity and extreme heat.
Unlimited growth isn't a good thing. Constant growth isn't needed. Eventually things come crashing down like the population of lemmings with constant growth, once the resources can't support it. Not everyone wants to live in a place like NY, MA, NJ, etc., places not too far away that are all over-developed, over-crowded, the result of constant growth. People have this mindset though, centered on economics. People think only in terms of money. Personally, I'm more in favor of a subsistence "economy" than what exists now. In other words, subsistence not profit and growth drives things. But people are so convinced they need so much due to the consumerism, it won't happen willingly. Wait until oil is even less affordable/becomes more scarce, or maybe rural areas simply withold food from the big cities...all of a sudden things come apart and those highly developed cities that people are so fond of, and the consumerist lifestyle, turns into hell.
Actually places like NYC (and other large urban areas) are the true parasites I think. They suck up resources in vast quantities (food, energy, building materials, etc.), and produce little of true value in return. Then the ignorant people in them (ignorant in many ways, including regarding food, the natural world, etc.), completely detached from the real world, try to force their silly notions (like gun control, taxes and big government, anti-hunting and trapping, etc.) on everyone else. I've heard from a lot of people in rural upstate NY who despise NYC for these reasons.
VT's biggest problem is taxes. A lack of high-paying jobs isn't such a problem when you don't have those high taxes to pay. Property taxes are the worst kind of tax. I could, given enough land, survive almost entirely on my own, providing my own food, heat, etc., but if there are taxes on that property, I'd be homeless in short order if unable to pay the taxes. Taxes are on of my main reasons for looking elsewhere. No taxes at all on my Alaska property.
Wow I love that you brought this up. Don't think New Yorkers think like that, I am one, and so is my entire family and quit a few friends.
In places like Chicago and LA, people think like that, but not in NYC. People in NYC are against the police (research in NY police have beaten almost to death protestors, bicyclests, etc.). New Yorkers, many, are against gun control and big government, as well as the Obamas, Clintons, and McCains.
However New Jersey is the one preatching gun control a bit and for big establishment. Your perception of New York is old and Upstate New York shouldn't talk, as its lands are polluted, they are trying to force more laws and force annoculations on the people, etc.
My move to Vermont has been an epiphany. Because I don't have a ton of cash I live in a small place and drive a couple of old cars. I've been forced to give up a more luxurious lifestyle, and you know what? I'm happier than ever. I live in a very small log cabin, which five years ago would have seem unacceptable. Now I wonder what the heck I was doing in such a big house before.
Cars? I don't care who makes them or what they look like as long as they get up my driveway. Instead of sitting in suburban traffic I can drive at a nice pace and see the Adirindacks to my left and the Green Mountains to my right. I sit on my porch in the morning and just enjoy nature. It's peaceful, it's serene and it's what I was made for (not to mention its free). I can breathe. It's as if a weight was lifted from my shoulder.
Meanwhile people all over the country are going into debt and working overtime to buy a BMW instead of a Honda so their neighbors won't think they are poor. Buying palaces that do nothing but ensure family members don't have to sit near each other. Commuting 90 minutes to work, stuck in a sea of red and white headlights. You know, the American dream. As Suze Orman says, "trying to impress people you don't know or even like".
Yeah the taxes are high here, so get a small place. You know, maybe the size of houses in every country in the world except America. Drive a cheaper car. Give up a few material items so you bask in the beauty of this place.
Yeah, we probably get suckered by a few freeloaders, but we do our best to help those in need. I'd rather err in this direction.
Vermonters like to talk about flatlanders, but flatlanders are the ones that actually choose to live here. And are happy here. Half of the native electricians, furnace guys etc that come to my house tell me they can't
wait to leave. I have never heard such conspiracy theories about politicians. My advice would be to leave. See the rest of the world.
You'll soon see Vermont has a lot to offer.
Yeah I would love to see laws that would require people clean up their yards, out of the respect to the land, which IS Vermont. I couldn't care less who's on the deed. I don't care about anyone's rights. If you want to talk about rights and the pursuit of happiness, how about the right to not live by homes with rusty bedsprings and rusty refrigerators in the front yard. I'm willing to give up some of my freedom to make sure we look after this place. I love Vermont and want to keep it beautiful.
I'm back to basics not because I was disciplined enough to give up everything, I had to make a few adjustments. I have plenty to eat and live in a palace, compared to most of the world. I get a kick out of buying local foods and helping another family. When I'm on my deathbed I won't be thinking about money or stock. I'll think about sitting on the porch with my wife every moring and just being blown away by the beauty of it all.
This place has been a blessing.
Where did you live before? I am 19 and don't even have my own room. How is the car insurance their? Its really low though right? I would want a place thats nice and beautiful, not massive, but not small ass.
Are their any good audio engineering/music production schools in VT?
vters should be very careful who they elect into office because all it takes is one developer to fill the pockets of one influential greedy politician and this state might as well call itself long island. Downstate ny'ers choose to work harder for their luxuries or to retire early. Vermonters work much harder just to keep a roof over their head. Do you agree? I think there could be a happy medium between the two lifestyles. Vt can do without massive development, anti-gun laws and high taxes, especially school taxes. I have adjusted to living in a pro-hunting. Trapping on the other hand is bit barbaric and extremely cruel.
WOW! This is beautiful. That sounds EXACTLY like my ideal/style of living. Good to see other people still know how to live and what to live for. I thought my boyfriend and I were the ONLY ones left with this idealogy. We are planning to live in VT for a few months IN a few months, Cali for a short period of time, hopefully Montana, and eventually to Colorado for good. Thanks for showing me there's other people like you in places we want to go. Good luck and keep living the dream. And VT, take advantage of all the beauty you have - how can anyone complain about living there? I guess for the same reasons I don't love NY. Where in VT do you live? Could you PM me about it? I'd love to hear my options in VT to live like this - Thanks so much!!
Wow do you have enough $$ to live / stay in a state for a few months then leave, etc.
My move to Vermont has been an epiphany. Because I don't have a ton of cash I live in a small place and drive a couple of old cars. I've been forced to give up a more luxurious lifestyle, and you know what? I'm happier than ever. I live in a very small log cabin, which five years ago would have seem unacceptable. Now I wonder what the heck I was doing in such a big house before.
Cars? I don't care who makes them or what they look like as long as they get up my driveway. Instead of sitting in suburban traffic I can drive at a nice pace and see the Adirindacks to my left and the Green Mountains to my right. I sit on my porch in the morning and just enjoy nature. It's peaceful, it's serene and it's what I was made for (not to mention its free). I can breathe. It's as if a weight was lifted from my shoulder.
Meanwhile people all over the country are going into debt and working overtime to buy a BMW instead of a Honda so their neighbors won't think they are poor. Buying palaces that do nothing but ensure family members don't have to sit near each other. Commuting 90 minutes to work, stuck in a sea of red and white headlights. You know, the American dream. As Suze Orman says, "trying to impress people you don't know or even like".
Yeah the taxes are high here, so get a small place. You know, maybe the size of houses in every country in the world except America. Drive a cheaper car. Give up a few material items so you bask in the beauty of this place.
Yeah, we probably get suckered by a few freeloaders, but we do our best to help those in need. I'd rather err in this direction.
Vermonters like to talk about flatlanders, but flatlanders are the ones that actually choose to live here. And are happy here. Half of the native electricians, furnace guys etc that come to my house tell me they can't
wait to leave. I have never heard such conspiracy theories about politicians. My advice would be to leave. See the rest of the world.
You'll soon see Vermont has a lot to offer.
Yeah I would love to see laws that would require people clean up their yards, out of the respect to the land, which IS Vermont. I couldn't care less who's on the deed. I don't care about anyone's rights. If you want to talk about rights and the pursuit of happiness, how about the right to not live by homes with rusty bedsprings and rusty refrigerators in the front yard. I'm willing to give up some of my freedom to make sure we look after this place. I love Vermont and want to keep it beautiful.
I'm back to basics not because I was disciplined enough to give up everything, I had to make a few adjustments. I have plenty to eat and live in a palace, compared to most of the world. I get a kick out of buying local foods and helping another family. When I'm on my deathbed I won't be thinking about money or stock. I'll think about sitting on the porch with my wife every moring and just being blown away by the beauty of it all.
This place has been a blessing.
All this is vertytrue and well put. However,due to a variety of reasons most people can not find the sort of "in-between jobs" that would allow them to live like that in VT.
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Drive a cheaper car. Give up a few material items so you bask in the beauty of this place.
