Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Washingtonia yes, I've seen them around there, but not CIDP nor Queens. I've heard CIDP are around, but not in any abundance at all.
Augusta is temperate, not subtropical imo. You have to get down to within 50 miles of the coast to see more of those specimens. However, it is way more green and alive looking in Augusta in winter than say Philadelphia or New Jersey.
I've come to believe that the only major weakness of Koppen is with the Cfa zone and that the rest of it works well. The Cfa issue could be addressed simply by dividing the zone in half along the 9°C isotherm for the coldest month; at that point the system would be perfectly functional for any practical purpose.
That change would separate places like Philadelphia and Augusta from places Tampa and Orlando. Obviously it leaves Augusta together with Philadelphia but most people could probably live with that.
Riverwalk Augusta in December
Flickr user Stacie Wells, CC BY 2.0 <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0>, via Wikimedia Commons
The Cfa issue could be addressed simply by dividing the zone in half along the 9°C isotherm for the coldest month; at that point the system would be perfectly functional for any practical purpose.
Maybe we need diff definition of subtropical vs temperate for NH and SH. The hemispheres are just so different in terms of land area, solar radiation, and with a super strong vortex sitting over a continent of ice on the polar cap. The NH vortex averages a breakdown every 3 years, and it seems to be inching up to two years with global warming destroying it. SH vortex is stronger and rarely breaks down as the NH does.
The NH is always going to get colder in winter than the SH outside of Antarctica. Subtropical climates in the SH will always be more moderate than in NH and more stable in winter. Europe is more stable than NA, but it can get hit with severe cold from Russia that blasts all the way to southern Europe like in 2012 and in the 80's.
I've wondered the same thing at times but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
I would say the SE climate is subtropical along and south of the swath with the mean Jan temp of 10C(50F). Cities like Valdosta in south Georgia, Dothan, AL, Mobile, Savannah, Charleston, etc. Once you get north of those places, the cities struggle with what we refer to as typical subtropical veg like date palms, Washingtonia, oranges, bananas, etc. That doesn't mean they can't grow those, just that they aren't as reliable and more likely to look ratty. Let's just say more like to succumb to diseases and perish than typ subtropical species further south.
See below Savannah GA on a January day (mean Jan temp of 51F). TBH, that looks similar to the amount of green and bright sunshine you see in S FL in winter:
...then I've come to understand all the goodness Koppen brings in other areas and have decided (see my other post) that just splitting Cfa in half along 9°C (or 10°C) would be a more elegant approach.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,590 posts, read 14,747,529 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed's Mountain
I've come to believe that the only major weakness of Koppen is with the Cfa zone and that the rest of it works well. The Cfa issue could be addressed simply by dividing the zone in half along the 9°C isotherm for the coldest month; at that point the system would be perfectly functional for any practical purpose.
That change would separate places like Philadelphia and Augusta from places Tampa and Orlando. Obviously it leaves Augusta together with Philadelphia but most people could probably live with that.
Riverwalk Augusta in December
Flickr user Stacie Wells, CC BY 2.0 <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0>, via Wikimedia Commons
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
Maybe we need diff definition of subtropical vs temperate for NH and SH. The hemispheres are just so different in terms of land area, solar radiation, and with a super strong vortex sitting over a continent of ice on the polar cap. The NH vortex averages a breakdown every 3 years, and it seems to be inching up to two years with global warming destroying it. SH vortex is stronger and rarely breaks down as the NH does.
The NH is always going to get colder in winter than the SH outside of Antarctica. Subtropical climates in the SH will always be more moderate than in NH and more stable in winter. Europe is more stable than NA, but it can get hit with severe cold from Russia that blasts all the way to southern Europe like in 2012 and in the 80's.
I would say the SE climate is subtropical along and south of the swath with the mean Jan temp of 10C(50F). Cities like Valdosta in south Georgia, Dothan, AL, Mobile, Savannah, Charleston, etc. Once you get north of those places, the cities struggle with what we refer to as typical subtropical veg like date palms, Washingtonia, oranges, bananas, etc. That doesn't mean they can't grow those, just that they aren't as reliable and more likely to look ratty. Let's just say more like to succumb to diseases and perish than typ subtropical species further south.
See below Savannah GA on a January day (mean Jan temp of 51F). TBH, that looks similar to the amount of green and bright sunshine you see in S FL in winter:
I've come to believe that the only major weakness of Koppen is with the Cfa zone and that the rest of it works well. The Cfa issue could be addressed simply by dividing the zone in half along the 9°C isotherm for the coldest month; at that point the system would be perfectly functional for any practical purpose.
That change would separate places like Philadelphia and Augusta from places Tampa and Orlando. Obviously it leaves Augusta together with Philadelphia but most people could probably live with that.
Riverwalk Augusta in December
Flickr user Stacie Wells, CC BY 2.0 <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0>, via Wikimedia Commons
Augusta like Philadelphia, give me a break,.
Augusta is much closer to Florida in basic vegetation, Augusta is pine dominated just like the rest of the coastal plain but I see you cherry picked a winter photo that you think supports your point.
Augusta like Philadelphia, give me a break,.
Augusta is much closer to Florida in basic vegetation, Augusta is pine dominated just like the rest of the coastal plain but I see you cherry picked a winter photo that you think supports your point.
I didn't actually say Augusta was closer to Philadelphia than Florida. I said that dividing Cfa in half leaves Augusta stuck with Philadelphia. Not ideal perhaps but certainly a better outcome than grouping Philadelphia with Tampa.
Washingtonia yes, I've seen them around there, but not CIDP nor Queens. I've heard CIDP are around, but not in any abundance at all.
Augusta is temperate, not subtropical imo. You have to get down to within 50 miles of the coast to see more of those specimens. However, it is way more green and alive looking in Augusta in winter than say Philadelphia or New Jersey.
The basic forest type is the same for Augusta and the rest of the southern half of Georgia, pine forested with bald cypress in swampy areas. The CIDPs that are growing here look very good, only washingtonia robusta starts burning in the low 20s but they look like that in Savannah and Brunswick too, what's your point. My family's from the Charleston area, I used to visit there every weekend in the '90s, it didn't feel like I was entering another climate zone going there, it's nearly identical to Augusta/Aiken in fact.
You are not consistent, you want to eliminate as much of the south from being subtropical as possible, so you might include the coastal area. I've read through your older posts and you are just completely schizophrenic.
You like to cherry pic photos to judge an entire area, you'll cherry pick a photo from say Charleston and contrast it with a photo from the "dead inland south" and it is just ridiculous. Then you'll cherry pick a photo from like Australia or South America and contrast that photo with deciduous winter scenery from Charleston.
Humid subtropical means 8 months above 50, Trewartha came with the term but many are trying change the definition without any consistent methodology at all.
I didn't actually say Augusta was closer to Philadelphia than Florida. I said that dividing Cfa in half leaves Augusta stuck with Philadelphia. Not ideal perhaps but certainly a better outcome than grouping Philadelphia with Tampa.
Oh does that mean Augusta is in league with Houston and Galveston with their snow covered landscape this year, I mean you cherry picked a snow photo of Augusta. I'll have to start using troll logic too.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,590 posts, read 14,747,529 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emman85
Oh does that mean Augusta is in league with Houston and Galveston with their snow covered landscape this year, I mean you cherry picked a snow photo of Augusta. I'll have to start using troll logic too.
With a coldest month of 8.6°C, I group Augusta in my subtropical definition. I use a coldest month between 6°C and 17.9°C, and 4 or more months with a mean 18°C+
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.
. My family's from the Charleston area, I used to visit there every weekend in the '90s, it didn't feel like I was entering another climate zone going there, it's nearly identical to Augusta/Aiken in fact.
