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So much for keeping an open mind and scientifically considering all evidence before forming a conclusion-- That video is Chris Rock's humorous treatment of the problem of black/police encounters from several years ago...
Thanks for proving a point about academic pre-conceptions and cherry picking the data to fit the narrative.
Having grown up in Chicago, and early in my career trained, worked & volunteered in some of that city's "worst neighborhoods," I can assure you that it's a different world there from anything you can imagine from afar, particularly from the lecture halls & libraries in Madison. When dealing in that environment, no matter how altruistic one may be, push frequently comes to shove...Don't criticize a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes.
Again I know. I’ve watched the video before. I love comedy.
Can’t believe I have to prove how hard I am to make my opinion matter but here we go.
- worked at a skilled nursing facility by Timmerman airport in NW Milwaukee. It was called Franciscan Skemp and like many has since has changed ownership and name. Also lived by there by Hampton and 103rd. I can show you the exact house I rented if you want. Not the complete ghetto but pretty darn rough. None of the posters here would live there. I’d say 90% of the nursing home residents were black. Many old angry black folks who had no filter. 75% of the workers were black. I didn’t even know what Juneteenth was until I came into work one day and most the people left working were white and had double the caseload because many of the black folks requested day off or didn’t come into work.
- also lived and worked in Artesia NM at a clinic doing a temp job . Not the nicest town at all. I couldn’t find temp housing and only place available was a complete dump of an apt. Cockroaches everywhere. All neighbors were Latino. I’m pretty sure some weren’t legal residents. Most didn’t speak English.
- went to Uw Milwaukee for grad school. Volunteered in river west/Harambee neighborhood. Not the ghetto but not great by any means. Worked with low income kids in after school program who were pretty much all black.
- did clinical at community support program (which Walker privatized and closed down) and worked with mentally ill clients are in their homes in the worst areas of Milwaukee. South side, NW side etc. Chapter 51 level. Severely mentally ill often only qualify for the worst housing imaginable so you can imagine the locations.
All these experiences made me better understand the backgrounds and everyday life that people of color have to go through. They didn’t make me more bitter.
Ya I saw that. I’ve watched it before. It’s good entertainment. That’s why I brought up YouTube videos.
Nice deflection.
Entertainment or not, the video contained truth.
While it may have been self-deprecating towards the black community, it certainly didn't come across as sarcasm.
I do wonder if Chris Rock will/has backtracked or else get "cancelled" if that skit gets seen to much in today's absurd environment.
Unfortunately, we live in a strange new world in which expectations of simply obeying the law is seen as "far right". That mentality is sickening. Want to compare it to not wearing a mask? Fine whatever. Can't speak for others, but I wear masks. If it's the law, I'll do it whether or not I agree with it. If I get caught without one and some authority figure confronts me about it, I'm not going to resist and make a scene over it. Some white lady having a fit about wearing a mask at Walmart is just as ridiculous as a guy walking threatening police. One just happens to be more of an immediate threat and causing far more senseless violence so you'll have to forgive me if I don't go on forums raging mad about people not wearing masks.
I also don't like the state of media these days with people relying on amateur videos and social media for everything, but it is what it is.
Sadly, 100 year-old newspapers aren't any more reliable in telling people the truth, so who are we to believe? Best we can do is piece it all together for a somewhat reliable interpretation of what's going on.
YouTube is FAR more than just entertainment. That's a reality we have to be willing to accept without being too dismissive.
Sadly, 100 year-old newspapers aren't any more reliable in telling people the truth, so who are we to believe?
For the most part, they are more reliable in reporting the truth (or truthful phenomena), but the problem is in how the truths are presented--what the focus of the story is, how it's presented, what's left out, what phrasing is used to repackage concepts, how opinion is passed off as fact, what the other sides to the story are, etc. This is as true of the NYT as it is for Fox News. 100-year-old newspapers are great for news if you scrutinize what you're reading, compare and contrast sources, fill in the gaps, and ask lots of questions while you're reading.
For all their faults, the mainstream media have deep pockets and talented journalists that allow for higher quality investigation and vetting. This seems mostly the case for "print" media, and it's most apparent with politically uncontroversial news topics. YouTube videos (and television news) don't have this advantage--they are visual and aural, so usually incorporate more entertainment features such as music, dramatic pauses, and visual symbols (images of the flag, etc.) to set a tone. For me, this undercuts their pretense to truth. They also generally don't have known writers whose work you can track and evaluate on a long-term basis. This undercuts their potential for trust. Whereas one has to work a bit with MSM to pull the propaganda and bias away from the facts, it is generally possible. Not so much for random internet videos.
You earlier said that racism is a part of humanity, so we should just accept it.
I responded by saying that "scumbags destroying other people's lives" can also be seen as a fact of humanity (Aristotle, the Bible, Hobbes, and Freud have commented on this), but I rhetorically questioned the wisdom of merely accepting it.
Even if racism and destructive tendencies may be seen as fundamentally human, humans are capable of improving themselves for the sake of social cohesion and civilization.
We shouldn't accept racism, no matter how embedded it may be in us, and we shouldn't accept human violence and destructiveness, either.
Humans can do better in all of these categories.
I mentioned the United States because that is the focus of the thread here. I'm well aware of racism and violence in other parts of the world, but BLM and Antifa and the riots we're discussing have more to do with the U.S.
I agree that the riots are terrible, and there are perhaps "bad folk" (including "anarchists") behind them, but it seems a bit reactionary and unproductive to throw "limousine liberals" and "Democrats" into the mix.
You do realize that nearly half of the electorate are Democrats? You really think that half of the voters in this country are to blame for the riots, then?
That's quite a stretch of reasoning. It isn't much better than the reasoning behind the claim (made by some people) that all conservatives, Republicans, and Trumpers endorse police brutality, racist incidents, gay bashing, anti-Muslim behavior, anti-immigrant behavior, etc.
Isn't the truth much more complicated? Or is the world really just a Star Wars good-vs-evil scenario?
Thanks for reply.
Sure- at a 50,000 foot level, We can agree that people are prone to destructive behaviors and should strive to be better. However, that agreement is not gonna solve much today.
If you believe gov't could improve policies about policing go for it. I am not going to fight for it. Topic is not important to me. I prefer a police force that is free to do it's job and I accept the risks associated with that. It has been shown numerous times that, despite Democrat Fake News, statistically-racism in police forces is not a significant issue.
The riots OTOH are an outcome of defective thinking driven by Democrat led anarchists with an ulterior motive (chaos going into an election), not "ending systematic racism."
That is a much more evil action than a bad police officer here and there. My interest is in calling out that reality.
When I talk about Democrats, I am not talking about Grandma. I am talking about the leadership of what has become an ideological, power hungry movement that pretty much hates what I consider the strengths of this country.
Here, in the insane place I live, the leadership of this city actively promotes the destructive behaviors seen night after night. They will claim they do not but, by words (or lack thereof) and actions they MOST CERTAINLY do. How these people can sleep at night is beyond me.
Of course, they have 24 hr protection in their nice neighborhoods just like D mayors of NYC, Chicago and other Democrat run cities. They could care less about the business and people who's lives are being destroyed. This is very clear and cannot be argued against.
I see the Governor and Lt. Governor of Wisconsin speaking the very same way as the Democrat leaders of Portland.
So as to your question - Do I believe half the electorate is the cause of and supports riots? Perhaps not consciously but if they choose, after just a little research, to continue to vote D after seeing the destruction that the D party supports - YES.
Fortunately - I see many people who were asleep are now waking up to that reality. It will not matter here. OR is lost but in a swing state like WI it may be different. This will drive people away from D's not to them.
What do you think? Does this fake racial injustice issue and the corresponding drama/damage help or hurt D's in WI?
The propaganda machine (media) is doing such a super job of convincing those around the country we are all racists, bad people, need to be reprimanded. We are all such failed humans needing more empathy and give retribution to all those poor people that have been kept down for a century. We haven't given them enough to make up for all our failed attitudes and actions.
Fooey! I happen to know all too many African American's personally who are both friends AND acquaintances who are successful due to their flat out EFFORTS. They actually WORKED at it and moved up the ladder. It's the Democratic leadership that via their Welfare mentality has kept the blacks down from advancements. The dad gum media wants nothing more than to convince us all our law enforcement has gone wrong and needs to be dismantled. Yeah right......get rid of all possible law and order so the Democratic run leaders can take control of us all. No thanks. I for one am NOT among the brain dead like so many Demo's. Who buy into the Media crap filling their minds brainwashing them into feeling they want to be taken care of by the government instead of determining their OWN destiny via our current freedoms. So you can go your Demo way to destruction but I see it for what it IS. Kenosha is probably being overrun by paid protesters (good ole George Soros once again). Good luck with that.
Sure- at a 50,000 foot level, We can agree that people are prone to destructive behaviors and should strive to be better. However, that agreement is not gonna solve much today.
If you believe gov't could improve policies about policing go for it. I am not going to fight for it. Topic is not important to me. I prefer a police force that is free to do it's job and I accept the risks associated with that. It has been shown numerous times that, despite Democrat Fake News, statistically-racism in police forces is not a significant issue.
I don't think the outcry is just about racism in the police force-- it's also about police brutality, overreach, and accountability.
I agree that the police need to be able to do their job, but don't you agree that there should be protocols for procedure, some degree of transparency, and accountability?
Part of the problem these days is not necessarily "racism" per se in police-civilian interactions, but rather the perpetuation of historic racial divisions in the interactions. For generations, Blacks have not trusted the (mostly white) police. Many Blacks are brought up not to trust them. How do we address that?
Quote:
he riots OTOH are an outcome of defective thinking driven by Democrat led anarchists with an ulterior motive (chaos going into an election), not "ending systematic racism."
These incidents have been occurring for years, and they will continue to occur after the election. They will probably get worse and worse, too.
In what way are the rioters "Democrat-led"? To me, the rioters are anti-social opportunists who see all politicians, Dem and GOP, as pretty much the same. I doubt many of them pay much attention to what Evers and Pelosi say. I would bet very few of them vote at all.
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That is a much more evil action than a bad police officer here and there. My interest is in calling out that reality.
When I talk about Democrats, I am not talking about Grandma. I am talking about the leadership of what has become an ideological, power hungry movement that pretty much hates what I consider the strengths of this country.
Here, in the insane place I live, the leadership of this city actively promotes the destructive behaviors seen night after night. They will claim they do not but, by words (or lack thereof) and actions they MOST CERTAINLY do. How these people can sleep at night is beyond me.
Of course, they have 24 hr protection in their nice neighborhoods just like D mayors of NYC, Chicago and other Democrat run cities. They could care less about the business and people who's lives are being destroyed. This is very clear and cannot be argued against.
Other than turning the Dems into Republicans, what would you have them do in order to handle the situation better?
Should they have police tear gas and shoot protesters until they go home or fall from injury? Ban the right of protesters to assemble? Station police at every business and municipal building?
If taking a harder line against people leads to even more escalated violence, what then?
What solution would you propose that would have less violent and more favorable outcomes?
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I see the Governor and Lt. Governor of Wisconsin speaking the very same way as the Democrat leaders of Portland.
Evers' statement ought to have been more balanced. But if he had extolled the virtues of police while expressing his regret for the victim's circumstances, would that really have changed things?
My take is that the rioters would be out on the streets regardless of what the Dems say. They can declare all the curfews they want, send out troops, praise the police, and so on, it wouldn't matter. The rioters are not waiting at home to hear what the Dems say before they head out and carpetbag the protests.
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So as to your question - Do I believe half the electorate is the cause of and supports riots? Perhaps not consciously but if they choose, after just a little research, to continue to vote D after seeing the destruction that the D party supports - YES.
I don't think most Dems--even those who research the issue--are making a link between their party and the urban riots. I usually vote Dem, and what I see are Dem leaders trying to balance the rights of protesters with everything else. Maybe banning protesters works in Hong Kong, but not so much here.
Also, there are Dems who have a strong "law and order" mentality, but they don't care for the GOP approach to civil rights, environmental issues, international affairs, and so on.
Similar quandaries exist for conservatives. Christian evangelicals continue to support Trump even though he is exceptionally corrupt and immoral. But like the Dems, the conservatives have to pick their battles. Perhaps some Dems will switch if some "law and order" Republicans adopt a more libertarian social approach, but both sides seem to be reinforcing (and not broadening) their positions right now.
It's the curse of the two-party system
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Fortunately - I see many people who were asleep are now waking up to that reality. It will not matter here. OR is lost but in a swing state like WI it may be different. This will drive people away from D's not to them.
What do you think? Does this fake racial injustice issue and the corresponding drama/damage help or hurt D's in WI?
Stay Strong WI.
A lot of people don't think there's a "fake" racial injustice issue, so they'll probably keep voting for Dems. OTOH, if the GOP starts to take the racial issues seriously and shows some interest in the plight of racial minorities in Wisconsin, then maybe the Dems will see some competition. But for now, it seems that the GOP prefers to sit on the sidelines and shake their head. I don't see much productive coming from them with regard to this issue.
Last edited by Empidonax; 08-26-2020 at 11:11 AM..
Fooey! I happen to know all too many African American's personally who are both friends AND acquaintances who are successful due to their flat out EFFORTS. They actually WORKED at it and moved up the ladder. It's the Democratic leadership that via their Welfare mentality has kept the blacks down from advancements.
I know a lot of Blacks who have done that, too, and in many cases thanks to things such as Welfare--meant to be a temporary safety net, not a lifelong lifestyle.
The "Pull Yourself By The Bootstraps" mentality doesn't work for everyone, though. If it did, there wouldn't be so many dispossessed and discontented white people. Instead of wanting Trump to solve their problems, they would have made their own efforts to get ahead and be prosperous, but apparently many are playing the "blame game."
Sorry fellow Midwesterners and neighbors - they destroyed our city (Minneapolis) and it breaks my heart to hear they’re also destroying your state too. What a time. Prayers for the state of Wisconsin.
Gee, I wonder why Chinese, Korean, and Japanese Americans are seldom, if ever, shot by police. Maybe because they were raised properly and just want to live decent lives without bothering others. That might have a lot to do with it.
I've never read an article about police shooting a 72 year old Asian lady wearing a big wide hat and gardening gloves while she planted flowers in her front yard. But I do read articles where 20-something black men get shot because they want to fight police officers after they just robbed a convenience store.
Funny how no one seems to be willing to address what the real problem is, or when asked if they know what the problem is try to beat-around-the-bush with some nonsense politically-correct answer. Want to know what the problem is? It's Black Culture. Hands down that's what it is but no one is going to go on the radio or television and admit that, especially no politician.
True that there is a huge problem with White-Trash people too, druggies, meth-heads and that sort of thing, but even at only 14% of the overall population the percentage of blacks, particularly black men, and particularly those between the ages of 15 and 30, are America's foremost source of crime, trash, poverty, chaos, decay and destruction.
The problem definitely isn't Yellow, mostly isn't White, kinda isn't Brown or Red, and is certainly Black. I don't know what the breakdown is between nature and nurture, but something has to change and it isn't me.
Look, I'm not the one going into black neighborhoods and shooting up the place. I'm not the one robbing stores, breaking into people's houses, mugging people on the sidewalk, carjacking old men at stoplights, raping women in abandoned buildings and so on and so forth.....so why are people on the radio and the television blaming me for all of society's ills?
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