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"Please present positive evidence for strong atheism"
The utter and total lack of the smallest shred of evidence establishing the existence of god.
Quote:
Strong atheism helds, that most probably nothing beyond the " natural " universe exists.
Actually, "strong(sic) atheism" or any other form of atheism doesn't hold an affirmative believe in the nature of the universe. Atheist can hold opinions holding to the multi-universe theory to no opinion whatsoever regarding the state or origin of the universe.
Doesn't science say that the universe will die from exhausting all of its energy one day? With that said along with what you wrote about there being no reason for the universe, why even pay your rent? why even care what happens to anyone for that matter? This planet is slated for destruction anyways. What difference does it make if everyone on the planet dies today, as opposed to a billion years from now?
All over the world, millions of people get up every day, put on their pants just like you do, and go about their day without believing in your "reason" and without sinking into despair. Some people have different reasons from yours, and some of them don't believe there's a reason.
From my perspective as someone who doesn't see a given external objective reason for my existence, I find that I have the same chosen internal subjective reasons as everyone else. I love my wife and children, and find purpose in being present for them and I enjoy their company. I enjoy designing, implementing and maintaining quality software systems -- it's something that's needed and important. Since my life is short and finite, it is all the more precious.
My life is not all roses -- no one's is. I've buried a wife, a brother, and my parents, for example. I get discouraged just like everyone else does. But once you get over the idea that prayer actually helps or that god actually gives a fig, there's a LOT less frustration and anger and cognitive dissonance to deal with. I no longer try to make life something that it's not. Stuff happens -- this too shall pass. It's as good an attitude as any.
I've lost enough in life -- real (e.g., my wife) and imagined (e.g., god) to understand the dynamics of grief and loss. I've passed through that process multiple times as both as a theist and as an atheist. I find the difference to be basically a wash in terms of how it affects my subjective happiness. It's well understood by now that regardless of beliefs or circumstances we all have a happiness "set point" that we tend to return to no matter how positive or negative an experience we have anyway. Win the lottery, or file bankruptcy; a coupe of years later you're going to be more or less as (un)happy as you were before that event.
Theists like to imagine that letting go of their beliefs will result in despair, nihilism, and complete moral disintegration. They assume, I guess, that they will go mad, or at least wander the wastelands like a lost shade. None of these things actually happen, however.
All over the world, millions of people get up every day, put on their pants just like you do, and go about their day without believing in your "reason" and without sinking into despair. Some people have different reasons from yours, and some of them don't believe there's a reason.
From my perspective as someone who doesn't see a given external objective reason for my existence, I find that I have the same chosen internal subjective reasons as everyone else. I love my wife and children, and find purpose in being present for them and I enjoy their company. I enjoy designing, implementing and maintaining quality software systems -- it's something that's needed and important. Since my life is short and finite, it is all the more precious.
My life is not all roses -- no one's is. I've buried a wife, a brother, and my parents, for example. I get discouraged just like everyone else does. But once you get over the idea that prayer actually helps or that god actually gives a fig, there's a LOT less frustration and anger and cognitive dissonance to deal with. I no longer try to make life something that it's not. Stuff happens -- this too shall pass. It's as good an attitude as any.
I've lost enough in life -- real (e.g., my wife) and imagined (e.g., god) to understand the dynamics of grief and loss. I've passed through that process multiple times as both as a theist and as an atheist. I find the difference to be basically a wash in terms of how it affects my subjective happiness. It's well understood by now that regardless of beliefs or circumstances we all have a happiness "set point" that we tend to return to no matter how positive or negative an experience we have anyway. Win the lottery, or file bankruptcy; a coupe of years later you're going to be more or less as (un)happy as you were before that event.
Theists like to imagine that letting go of their beliefs will result in despair, nihilism, and complete moral disintegration. They assume, I guess, that they will go mad, or at least wander the wastelands like a lost shade. None of these things actually happen, however.
I enjoyed your post a lot. Thank you for being transparent. I am sorry for your losses
Before I was a believer, I was a miserable human being. I couldn't stand people and I was very selfish and prided myself on shutting people down both mentally and physically. I blamed my family for many horrible things that happened to me and used it as a crutch as to why I was the way I was.
I was addicted to drugs, alcohol, pornography, and destructive relationships. Nothing in this world gave me "true joy". The joke that is rehabilitation didn't work. I was pretty much ready to die and or be committed to a looney hospital.
I was told that I suffered from a myriad of mental disorders. Rx's never worked. These struggles lasted the majority of my life until a few years ago when I just so happened to start reading the book of Matthew. I don't know why I started reading. But a feeling of utter joy and relief came over me as I accepted the things being said as truth.
Long story short, I suffer from no mental disorders, I have no addictions and I focus solely on other peoples needs first and foremost before mine. This isn't all to say I am a good person or anything, because I know what hurt I am capable of if left to my way of doing things. I was a piece of crap and I got something wonderful when I didn't deserve anything.
Sorry everyone for unloading my past onto this thread but I felt compelled to be transparent when Mordant did the same.
magic is a beloved word used by atheists. how about you explain, how everything came to be without a intelligent mind / creator / god. Why is there something, rather than nothing ?
We don't know. No one knows. How would one even find that out? How are we to even pull this information together?
But atheists will claim as fact that there is no God and the Bible is completely myth. I think if anyone is going to claim something as fact then the onus is on them to back it up . Why do atheists automatically get off the hook?
Ockhams Razor. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You're the one making extraordinary claims, so you're the one who has to try and find something to back them up. Which you can't.
Thats a standard argument of atheists. Unfortunately, a pretty stupid one. We exist. The universe exists. That demands a answer. God is one of the possible answers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jah888
pretty easy :
everything that begins to exist , has a cause.
the universe began to exist.
therefore it has a cause.
Kalaam cosmological argument......
Now that's'a pretty lame argument. Circular, speculative and unsupported by any evidence. Except of course the words in that non-scientific bible, made up by wandering minstrels who were half-starved and certainly, compared to today, technically illiterate ("Oh NO! It's my shadow, and today it's following me around! Get God on the phone!") Try this one:
√ We do not yet understand all the intricacies of the physical universe, including it's possible origins. We also now have some excellent evidence that does, howver, support the model that astronomers ( a credible and valid branch of science, bte...)
√ We certainly do not know if the existing universe had a specific "cause", as in some idea formulated in some-thing's "mind". (See William Shatner for the best pronouncement of this phrase...)
To claim otherwise is to tell us, absolutely, that you have a better understanding of the universe than those who are educated in such things and are designing and then making measurements that tell us we're moving in the right direcction.
√ It may have pre-existed, but in another space.size and time continuum. Einstein told us such things were possible, and he had the reasonable numbers to prove it. What numbers and observations do you have, jda?
I appreciate the story of your past challenges. To me that tell us all to about why you are now so adamantly devout and unwilling to find out, though you must know it's at least a possibility, one that rises with each new month as we learn more and more; that there is no supernatural God, that it did, yep, just occur by chance.
To deny that possibility is to be a non-reasonable non-realistic person. My condolences.
Doesn't science say that the universe will die from exhausting all of its energy one day? With that said along with what you wrote about there being no reason for the universe, why even pay your rent? why even care what happens to anyone for that matter? This planet is slated for destruction anyways. What difference does it make if everyone on the planet dies today, as opposed to a billion years from now?
Even though I'm an atheist, questions like yours make me think it's probably better for most of humanity to believe in some kind of God. Perhaps people need God in their lives to have a sense of hope and purpose. Whatever makes people happy and sleep better at night is fine by me. I am absolutely comfortable with it as long as I am free to do the same.
I enjoyed your post a lot. Thank you for being transparent. I am sorry for your losses
Before I was a believer, I was a miserable human being. I couldn't stand people and I was very selfish and prided myself on shutting people down both mentally and physically. I blamed my family for many horrible things that happened to me and used it as a crutch as to why I was the way I was.
I was addicted to drugs, alcohol, pornography, and destructive relationships. Nothing in this world gave me "true joy". The joke that is rehabilitation didn't work. I was pretty much ready to die and or be committed to a looney hospital.
I was told that I suffered from a myriad of mental disorders. Rx's never worked. These struggles lasted the majority of my life until a few years ago when I just so happened to start reading the book of Matthew. I don't know why I started reading. But a feeling of utter joy and relief came over me as I accepted the things being said as truth.
Long story short, I suffer from no mental disorders, I have no addictions and I focus solely on other peoples needs first and foremost before mine. This isn't all to say I am a good person or anything, because I know what hurt I am capable of if left to my way of doing things. I was a piece of crap and I got something wonderful when I didn't deserve anything.
Sorry everyone for unloading my past onto this thread but I felt compelled to be transparent when Mordant did the same.
Thanks for posting your story. I am sincerely glad that religion is helping you with your life.
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