Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Here's a good resource for anyone interested in good quality information about NDE's (Journal of Near-Death Studies)...
Veridical Near-Death Experiences Veridical near-death experiences are NDEs in which people reportedly out-of-body have observed events or gathered information that was verified by others upon the experiencer’s return to a conscious state.
Examples: https://iands.org/ndes/about-ndes/ke...1.html?start=2
-----
“No one physiological or psychological model by itself explains all the common features of NDE. The paradoxical occurrence of heightened, lucid awareness and logical thought processes during a period of impaired cerebral perfusion raises particular perplexing questions for our current understanding of consciousness and its relation to brain function. A clear sensorium and complex perceptual processes during a period of apparent clinical death challenge the concept that consciousness is localized exclusively in the brain."
Amen! We already exist at a non-material level of existence as an EM-like consciousness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Our Reality is a unified field that manifests everything we think is material. What our brain produces already exists in the unified field and not in our physical bodies. Our actual immaterial Self communicates with our brain to manifest within the material realm through recorded memories of its production that enable our Self to develop with a continuity of experience. We are already non-material and eternal. What happens to our physical body and brain is as immaterial to our spiritual fate as the placenta was to our physical birth.
Here's a good resource for anyone interested in good quality information about NDE's (Journal of Near-Death Studies)...
Veridical Near-Death Experiences Veridical near-death experiences are NDEs in which people reportedly out-of-body have observed events or gathered information that was verified by others upon the experiencer’s return to a conscious state.
Examples: https://iands.org/ndes/about-ndes/ke...1.html?start=2
-----
“No one physiological or psychological model by itself explains all the common features of NDE. The paradoxical occurrence of heightened, lucid awareness and logical thought processes during a period of impaired cerebral perfusion raises particular perplexing questions for our current understanding of consciousness and its relation to brain function. A clear sensorium and complex perceptual processes during a period of apparent clinical death challenge the concept that consciousness is localized exclusively in the brain."
All very interesting. But you did say 'reportedly'. Anecdotal claims are always to be treated with caution, whether they are blackened corpses coming to life or pastors walking on water and being eaten by a crocodile.
The questions about the mechanism in NDE's (and OOB's which are not, in fact, the same thing) are- unknowns. I am aware of hypotheses and also of the efforts to rule out any medical explanation. The fact is that, until you know what does it, one cannot definitely say what doesn't.
I know that believers in a soul, heaven and God are desperate to have medical science accept such claims as the only answer before we really know what is going on.
That said, whatever it is, the evidence of the conflicting types of 'afterlife' that the subject perceive during Experiences should make us doubt that what they experience exists anywhere but in their own head.
I have been watching a few of these recently, partly because his script is excellent and his arguments are at least thought provoking, though there are counter arguments. Is for instance the refrib of Klingons to look like insect -Xindi any worse than the horny forehead Klingons that suddenly appeared on our screens?
Thus the vid and why I think it sheds light on atheism and indeed religion.
Canon matters. It is a violation of the heart of a story to 'just tell a story' and bugger the canon, with any loved fictional tradition, be it Holmes, LoR, Star trek or star wars. You cannot violate canon or the belief in the myth is destroyed. Or suspension of disbelief - for pleasure. And pleasure in Myth is something an atheist can do.
Oddly, violation of canon on historical grounds is fine. If a case can be made for overturning beliefs on Columbus, Custer, British India and any cherished propaganda -dream, so be it, because (I almost said "For" slap me hard if I ever do that ) the truth matters.
But where it is not truth (actual history) and this is vital - LoR, Star Trek and Holmes are NOT true and the magic of myth only works if we know they are not true, then the canon that creates (and has to maintain) credibility within the mythical universe cannot be strained beyond where credibility (suspension of disbelief) collapses. When that happens, the myth collapses and there is no point in it anymore.
This takes case of atheism. We know where we are on history vs myth and why one can be - needs to be - revised in the light of evidence to be viable. because the moment we start denying evidence to maintain a belief, it stops being a science and becomes a cult.
Thus religion. I'm not sure here,but there are elements of religious canon being treated like history - dismissing previous beliefs to revise them (but for reasons other than evidence ) or history being treated like Myth, where it conflicts with the canon of the myth. But that'd a deep one.
So I'm not sure whether I'm more interested in the fun i get out of these vids, the concern i do have with star-drek and Dickard, and indeed Star wars (though i was never a Fan). I am bothered by lack of integrity, especially when it trashes what people value.
I value this because others value it. And that makes me a cultural trekkie as well as a Culture Buddhist Christian and LoR -ist. These things are valued. Even if i do not myself value them
Why then bash religion? Because it is sold to us as fact and it is fiction. Sure, it has history, but so does the hisity of Holmes as a fiction character and Doyle as a writer and is nothing to do with the fact that Holmes is not real (though probably based on a real character).
That's why peddling religion as Historical fact is to be fought as hard as i would against LoR cultist who tried to have Middle earth taught in school as real history.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-03-2020 at 10:02 AM..
I just posted a new thread with an absolute gem of an interview with Ricky Gervais and Lawrence Krauss over on the main forum.
Didn't want to double post so thought I'd direct people over there from here if interested... thanks.
I just posted a new thread with an absolute gem of an interview with Ricky Gervais and Lawrence Krauss over on the main forum.
Didn't want to double post so thought I'd direct people over there from here if interested... thanks.
I am curious why there are so many atheist programs that cover religions and god and stuff, but nothing going after things that now are far more popular and more dangerous. Things like Pseudoscience, law of attraction, "Abraham" Hicks. Pam Grout, spirit guides, and all of this other endless new age occult stuff that everyone even non-religious people are buying into and in some cases even claiming as proven by science!
I am curious why there are so many atheist programs that cover religions and god and stuff, but nothing going after things that now are far more popular and more dangerous. Things like Pseudoscience, law of attraction, "Abraham" Hicks. Pam Grout, spirit guides, and all of this other endless new age occult stuff that everyone even non-religious people are buying into and in some cases even claiming as proven by science!
Atheism covers the question of a deity. The other things you have listed are assaults against rationalism. This is the atheist forum. I consider the things you listed to be nonsense, and I believe so do the majority of atheists, but such opposition is not a requirement of atheism.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
suspension of disbelief
and his arguments are at least thought provoking, though there are counter arguments. Is for instance the refrib of Klingons to look like insect -Xindi any worse than the horny forehead Klingons that suddenly appeared on our screens?
slap me hard if I ever do that 
) the truth matters.
) or history being treated like Myth, where it conflicts with the canon of the myth. But that'd a deep one.
