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What scares me is that you can't accept reality. Reality is that most people are religious. There is a huge mystery and that is going to be filled with Something rather than nothing. Why can't you accept that most people are going to believe in Something?
You seem determined to want to change that. And I wonder what steps you would take to make things "right" in the world. What is the final solution that could ever satisfy this mad desire of extreme atheists?
"Being religious" is such a broad term that it's almost meaningless.
I know people who have virtually never been to church as an adult, who have never read the bible, and lead pretty disreputable lives...and they believe in god. And having lived overseas, I have known MANY people who are involved in non-christian religions that do no acknowledge your god at all.
And by the way...this isn't a majority rules issue.
People pray because they know that prayer works for some things if they are in the right spirit. But they will pray for pretty much anything at their personal whim also, in the hopes that it will work for whatever they want. As far as what kind of prayer works, and how it works, your guess is as good as mine.
Prayer works if something is going to happen any way.
People pray because they know that prayer works for some things if they are in the right spirit. But they will pray for pretty much anything at their personal whim also, in the hopes that it will work for whatever they want. As far as what kind of prayer works, and how it works, your guess is as good as mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Prayer works if something is going to happen any way.
My prayers are some variation of "Tell me what the hell do I do about THIS?" An answer always comes one way or another.
Arach is wrong and for the wrong reasons. But he Sounds right to a lot of people because they haven't thought it through.
God exists or doesn't. When one claims the sun rises in the east and the other claims it rises in the west, one is right and the other wrong. The right answer is not 'In the Middle'
That said, determining whether the god claim is right or wrong isn't so easy. We know about the various gods of the religions and the Firstcause god. I won't go over those again. Those are the only god -claims that are worth a debate.
Labeling nature "God" is a trick unless you can validate a volitional entity apart from known physical laws. Postulating a god that cannot be demonstrated is postulating a god that merits no belief.
Thus the atheist position is non -belief until there is reason to believe. We are the middle position between belief without good reason and rejection without any reason (effectively disbelievers who haven't thought about it).
Arach pulls this trick, (disguising the plate of crap with a piquant sauce of accusations of bias using parlour psychology) not because he doesn't know better (we told him often enough) but because he dislikes what he (with some cause) thinks are our politics. The bias is all his - projected onto us.
Wrong argument, wrong reason. It is tempting to give the thumbs up to anyone who comes up with a slapdown of atheism that you hadn't thought of, but believe me - Arach is an investment in alchemy.
Trans, you have some bat-crazy beliefs. You are attempting to mix facts with your bat-crazy beliefs. You have to provide some kind of EVIDENCE for your crazy beliefs, just like I would expect a religious fundamentalist. You pull this same lousy trick with so many of your posts. You mention facts that have nothing to do with any of the crazy crap you are trying to push. I'm not buying it.
Not just me...but most of the atheists on here do seek the truth, while you just keep telling old, worn out stories and live in your echo chamber.
Phetaroi, why is it a "worn out story" for me to admit a mystery about these things? How do YOU claim to know so much without showing any evidence for your extremist belief?
"Killing many people to win." Killing people...how? Win...what?
I am in complete bewilderment of why Ozzy is accusing Trans' measured rants and characterizations as being "scary," or why Arach immediately thought about killing people as if though it was anything that Trans was suggesting.
I guess we are living in weird times, that or some people are watching too much Fox News.
Phetaroi, why is it a "worn out story" for me to admit a mystery about these things? How do YOU claim to know so much without showing any evidence for your extremist belief?
You need to read what I actually wrote instead of what you want to think I wrote.
What scares me is that you can't accept reality. Reality is that most people are religious. There is a huge mystery and that is going to be filled with Something rather than nothing. Why can't you accept that most people are going to believe in Something?
You seem determined to want to change that. And I wonder what steps you would take to make things "right" in the world. What is the final solution that could ever satisfy this mad desire of extreme atheists?
Ummm... Hello! I'm determined as well. Trans isn't the end-all be-all. And indeed, it is to do as much good as I can in this world, that the requires discussion and education, rather than factioning or faith (which means fighting it, along with superstition).
None of us are trying to baselessly boogeyman people into our beliefs nor are we trying to bring anything further than the threat of words to their brains.
A big part of my endeavors is also to learn about others.
Trans, you have some bat-crazy beliefs. You are attempting to mix facts with your bat-crazy beliefs. You have to provide some kind of EVIDENCE for your crazy beliefs, just like I would expect a religious fundamentalist. You pull this same lousy trick with so many of your posts. You mention facts that have nothing to do with any of the crazy crap you are trying to push. I'm not buying it.
That's because what I am so often countering is not 'facts' but ways of arguing. Do I need to argue 'Facts' when pointing out that 'not believing what had no good evidence' is middle ground between Faith without decent evidence and rejection without evidence?
Or the talk about Arach? I have engaged with him ling since when i tried to get to what his Problem was - being 'atheist' but making all sorts of crazy accusations about us and refusing to listen -Ever? I tracked it down to a bias against the 'Liberal' position of most atheists, which he regards as 'extreme' and he (as a liberal despising atheist' sees himself in sweet reasonable position.
So I can't prove I've seen this, but surely you've seen how whacky and impervious to reason his posts are? Or don't you care, so long as he bashes atheism?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
Phetaroi, why is it a "worn out story" for me to admit a mystery about these things? How do YOU claim to know so much without showing any evidence for your extremist belief?
Worn out beliefs? In like the Bible? Have you never read any of the debates where reasons are given for not believing what the Bible says? Do YOU believe what it says? I have noticed a distinct disinclination on your part to argue for Bible truth but as something valuable as a ...Spock knows what...valuable antique of western culture.
Or is that also bat-crazy guesswork without evidence on my part? If it's right, then you also concur that they are 'worn -out stories', even if you wouldn't put it like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth
I am in complete bewilderment of why Ozzy is accusing Trans' measured rants and characterizations as being "scary," or why Arach immediately thought about killing people as if though it was anything that Trans was suggesting.
I guess we are living in weird times, that or some people are watching too much Fox News.
I have always valued Ozzy as an opponent and I have a feeling there is something worth working on. Like Jeff. And Nate. And a few others who at least seem to listen even if their responses are often not pertinent, let alone valid. Others simply aren't listening at all.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-29-2018 at 02:31 AM..
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