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Do you believe humanity will ever reach the point that its possible to explain all the unknowns by material phenomena?
I'm Agnostic about that but I think that we may be able to find out some things that we would think unknowable today. I am always aware of unknowns but I am thankful for knowns (or at least plausibly explaineds) and I delight in each new discovery.
The Higgs -Boson, that Tyre was never destroyed 'for ever', what Pluto looks like, that God did not smite the Assyrians, Tiktaalik, Lucy and feathered dinosaurs, and that the resurrection (and nativities) can be debunked.
It's all good.
Nobody knows Anything for sure 100%, strictly speaking. but that is irrelevant.
Absolutely false! There are many things that we know for certain -lol, which are knowable (and proveable by science). And it’s VERY relevant; in fact, it’s the entire point! God cannot be proven (or dis-proven).
Absolutely false! There are many things that we know for certain -lol, which are knowable (and proveable by science). And it’s VERY relevant; in fact, it’s the entire point! God cannot be proven (or dis-proven).
Good. I was hoping that someone would say that. Yes, we do take these as 'known'. But Technically, we can't be 100% sure. What (some apologists ask) if it was all in your mind, or mine? What if it was all a game on an alien computer -screen? What if none of it was real?
One can see those objections are undisprovable, but we never, in the usual way, worry much about that. We say we 'know'. We trust the science.
That's why the way the world works (or so science tells us) is a basis for coming to conclusions, and appeals to unknowns and not being 100% sure are invalid, even if undisprovable.
And the god -claims turn out to be invalid, (without serious supportive evidence) even is we can't disprove a god. That is what should inform our conclusion about the god -claim, but what we get is an appeal to faith, but it is often dressed up as 'not being 100% sure'.
You should hear the sermons preached against atheists. We don't believe in anything. We have no morals. We are out to corrupt the innocent and guide them into a life of crime and degradation. This is straight from the pulpit.
You should hear the sermons preached against atheists. We don't believe in anything. We have no morals. We are out to corrupt the innocent and guide them into a life of crime and degradation. This is straight from the pulpit.
How can they say that about nice guys like us? A little baby -eating, a little street -fornication, some liberal politics...where's the harm?
You should hear the sermons preached against atheists. We don't believe in anything. We have no morals. We are out to corrupt the innocent and guide them into a life of crime and degradation. This is straight from the pulpit.
I didn’t realize so many people are so sensitive. If true, how does this affect you? So get involved, be proactive about keeping religion out of schools, government, etc. But, how does mocking or bashing on a forum (even if it’s done in retaliation) accomplish anything? Personally, I don’t care what any Christian (or atheist) has to say about me. I don’t believe in a God, but I certainly don’t lead a life of crime and degradation. People can ‘say’ whatever they want. This post rather sounds like, ‘But Mom, he started it!’
Last edited by CorporateCowboy; 02-19-2019 at 08:59 AM..
I didn’t realize so many people are so sensitive. If true, how does this affect you? So get involved, be proactive about keeping religion out of schools, government, etc. But, how does mocking or bashing on a forum (even if it’s done in retaliation) accomplish anything? Personally, I don’t care what any Christian (or atheist) has to say about me. I don’t believe in a God, but I certainly don’t lead a life of crime and degradation. People can ‘say’ whatever they want.
Because it's one of the last areas where you can be obnoxious. And you get to display a superiority complex about a topic you detest, and it limits the conversations/or at least drives them to go elsewhere...out of sight, out of mind.
I didn’t realize so many people are so sensitive. If true, how does this affect you? So get involved, be proactive about keeping religion out of schools, government, etc. But, how does mocking or bashing on a forum (even if it’s done in retaliation) accomplish anything? Personally, I don’t care what any Christian (or atheist) has to say about me. I don’t believe in a God, but I certainly don’t lead a life of crime and degradation. People can ‘say’ whatever they want. This post rather sounds like, ‘But Mom, he started it!’
But Mom, "they" did start it with their damnations of non-believers. And the only acceptable way to fight back is through words. The only meaningful way to express that their sometimes rabid fomenting of public opinion, particularly by the religious right, is by taking up arms...in this case the weapon being words. Religious right leaders, led perhaps by Jerry Falwell picked up words as their weapons. Did they/do they think that people with different beliefs are just going lay down and be trampled over. NO.
But Mom, "they" did start it with they damnations of non-believers. And the only acceptable way to fight back is through words. The only meaningful way to express that their sometimes rabid fomenting of public opinion, particularly by the religious right, is by taking up arms...in this case the weapon being words. Religious right leaders, led perhaps by Jerry Falwell picked up words as their weapons. Did they/do they think that people with different beliefs are just going lay down and be trampled over. NO.
One must have a clear understanding of the problem in order to fight it - and fighting to keep religion out of schools, government, etc - IS THE BATTLE, not bashing someone’s individual belief (in a forum). Everyone has the right to believe what they believe - but no one has the right to shove their beliefs down someone’s throat. I used to think this was a tactic of some Christians who tried to ‘save me’. I’m seeing in this forum it’s actually atheists who are doing the exact same thing - and somehow too blinded by anger, they don’t see the irony in this.
One must have a clear understanding of the problem in order to fight it - and fighting to keep religion out of schools, government, etc - IS THE BATTLE, not bashing someone’s individual belief (in a forum). Everyone has the right to believe what they believe - but no one has the right to shove their beliefs down someone’s throat. I used to think this was a tactic of some Christians who tried to ‘save me’. I’m seeing in this forum it’s actually atheists who are doing the exact same thing - and somehow too blinded by anger, they don’t see the irony in this.
Every front is a fair front.
I'm, Buddhist. And that NEVER comes up in conversation that I'm involved in except when someone asks me what I've been doing lately and I mention in passing that I've been tutoring two Buddhist monks in English...since they asked.
But then every once in a while -- for example, one day out on a long walk -- when some Christian will come up to me and start a "friendly" conversation about small talk, and then suddenly whip out a book and ask, "Do you know what this is?" And I respond, "Sure. It's a bible. And your intention in starting this conversation is to find out if I need to be converted". "Oh no. This is just a friendly conversation. [long pause]. But have you been born again?" And when they start shoving, I'm gonna shove back.
The christians who come to this part of the forum keep shoving, and I and several others are going to shove right back. You can minimize as "Well they started it", if you want to. But I would prefer to say that we are taking up arms -- and the weapon choice is words -- against those who are trying to lay their beliefs down on everyone else who thinks differently. It isn't just about keeping religion out of government...it's also about keeping intrusive religion out of our private lives.
Last edited by phetaroi; 02-19-2019 at 09:41 AM..
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but I think that we may be able to find out some things that we would think unknowable today. I am always aware of unknowns but I am thankful for knowns (or at least plausibly explaineds) and I delight in each new discovery. 
How can they say that about nice guys like us? A little baby -eating, a little street -fornication, some liberal politics...where's the harm?
