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Kennesaw State has over 20,000 students now. A lot of people don't realize how big the school's gotten over the last decade. I think it's third biggest in the state.
Whether or not we have a "brain train," it's smart to link universities up to other dense areas. I'd love to see a rail network that incorporated both KSU and UGA into the metro Atlanta network.
The latest enrollments are
UGA 34,677
GSU 31,533
GPC 25,113
KSU 23,452
GT 20,721
GaSo 19,691
I don't have a problem with a rail connection between the colleges and universities per se. I just don't think it is cost effective to do. i think it would serve UGA more than anyone else.
Haha students who attend the university would love it because the majority of them are from North Atlanta and thats just saving gas money, plus they wouldn't have to drive on that death trap 316...
Ok... first off, I think people are thinking about the literal idea of connecting colleges being the sole for having a regional rail line to Athens is problematic, but that I aside I think we need to clear up a few misconceptions on attracting growth, jobs, and universities themselves.
One person said roads have more to do with attracting businesses... and that statement from a planning stand point isn't exactly true. It is true when businesses choose an exact location to locate the positioning of roads, traffic, etc... is extremely important, but most companies furnishing high-end jobs must first choose this region and metro Atlanta first. There is alot of thought and consideration that goes into that, such as: access to resources, costs of shipping, cost of operating offices in a location, costs of business travel from that location (a big bonus point and HUGE selling point for Atlanta... we are in a perfect geographic center of the major east coast business cities (the major Texas cities, Chicago, NYC-Boston, and Miami/Central Florida). However, one of the biggest things they look for are access to intellecutual knowledge, potential employee base, and some firms even look for research help from neighboring universities.
The idea isn't just to connect students together, but to promote business travel and university cooperation in the area, so we can attract businesses that match the strengths of our leading universities (particularly in biosciences). If we bring in more high-end jobs, then we have more people spending alot of money locally, which promotes many more jobs in the retail/service sector for lower and middle income employees.
I don't want to knock KSU. It is a big university and does a great job educating students, but it is only a state regional university. There isn't as much money there to promote research activity like you see at UGA, GT, or Emory. Enrollment figures don't have much to do with it. UGA is much larger than GT by enrollment, but I would say the amount of research activity is about the same. We don't need to connect to KSU to sell the region in these respect. However, Kenessaw is a suburb of Atlanta that needs transit connections for commuters in general.
The other side to this... remember I said businesses care about the cost of business travel from a city. Hartsfield provides cheap less than 2 hours of travel to about 80% of the country's population. Atlanta is a great location in this respect. If we connect Athens and Macon better, then we can help them have some of the same benefits, which makes it easier for a company to set up in Barrow County for field/large warehouse research facilities, offices in Gwinnett or in Athens and still be able to access ATL airport cheaply and quickly. This also makes the whole region more attractive to a major company that has multiple needs (Office, Large R&D spaces, access to research/human capital).
This is why the "brain train" is marketed the way it is.
At the end of the day though it isn't just a brain train. It is strengthening ties between Georgia's major cities and providing commuter rail service in Atlanta's suburbs along the way.
Regarding KSU: Upthread I was speaking strictly from the point of view of commuter movement. It's no accident that Concept 3 (a pipe dream, I know) made KSU the end of the line along the 75 corridor through Marietta and Cumberland into Midtown. (Southern Poly is also a stop, I believe.) Most smart urban planning these days integrates universities into its transit networks.
And while you're right to say that considerations of research dollars is most relevant to UGA, which gets the lion's share of research funding in the state, you're understating advances at KSU in the past decade. It's not an R1 school by any means, but it's not a commuter school either. Research funding has been going up and up there for a while now, with school admin and USG aiming to increase KSU's research profile even more in the next decade.
I don't think the brain train concept has to solely apply to UGA, when metro Atlanta has several universities that need to be folded into transit expansion discussions. (Personally, I sort of hate that branding anyway. It's WAY too self-important.)
Referring to the proposed map of testa50 on the first page (great ideas btw!), I would make the following changes/additions:
Yellow line...
North:
1) Cumberland Mall and Cobb Galleria should not have two separate stations. This can easily be handled by a single elevated station above Cobb Pkwy. Cumberland Mall and Cobb Galleria are literally across the street from each other.
2) There isn't much to justify stations at what you call West Paces and Chattahoochee. This area is just suburban homes and some rather impressive upper class estates. There is nothing that would draw people here in terms of shopping/work and the population density in these areas is light. I doubt there will be much demand for MARTA here at all.
3) The line should continue with additional stops in the following order...
- Vinings (somewhere at or between the intersections of Paces Ferry/Cumberland Blvd and Paces Ferry/Paces Mill).
- Smyrna (somewhere at or between the intersections of Atlanta Rd/Church St and Atlanta Rd/Windy Hill Rd)
- Marietta (downtown)
- Perhaps a future extension to Kennesaw (but the distance from Marietta to Kennesaw is nearly the same distance from Cumberland to Marietta, so it would be a significant line extension just to reach Kennesaw).
South...
I disagree with this Yellow line being a North-South line and running three parallel lines to the airport. This doesn't make sense. This yellow line should instead extend EAST to Buckhead Station as that is where many Northwest perimeter people work anyway. This would enable them with a quick change to get to Dunwoody or to continue south into downtown. This line should then continue Southeast to Druid Hills, Emory, Virginia Highlands, and eventually linking up with the Blue Line in Decatur.
The other line that I believe should be changed is your Brown Line. I believe it should terminate at the "Domestic Terminal" station, essentially remaining the same as it currently exists today so that there are two parallel North-South lines running to the airport. I don't think there needs to be a separate link to the International Terminal. The airport has its own transportation system and security apparatus anyway. Let's not overly complicate things for travelers.
After the airport (Domestic Terminal), the Brown line should branch off Southeast towards Forest Park, Morrow, and Stockbridge. The Red line should branch off Southwest towards Union City and Fairburn.
On the North end, the Red line should definitely extend to Roswell and Alpharetta.
The only real research is done at Georgia Tech, Emory, Medical College, and UGA. Georgia State is up and coming in research. The latest figures I could find were from 2008
Georgia Tech $427 million
UGA $128 million
MCG $75 million
GSU $41 million
Fort Valley $13 million
Albany $3.3 million
GaSou $2.5 million
KSU $1.4 million
A recent figure for Emory is $535 million.
It's fine for professors of schools to seek grants and contracts but the state of Georgia is better to focus its research support on just a few schools instead of spreading support thinly over more schools. Ga colleges and universities certainly can provide contractual research support for local companies and government.
As for the Brain Train, maybe the name should be dropped. If it is to connect universities, I don't see the point. If it is provide northeast access for commuters to and from the airport, maybe if there is large enough demand. MARTA is convenient and it runs in 15 and 20 minute intervals and goes straight to the airport. The Brain Train would have to sell itself as a convenient alternative to driving to a MARTA station or directly to an airport. If the MARTA Doraville line is ever extended well into Gwinnett, I don't think we would need the Brain Train.
The only real research is done at Georgia Tech, Emory, Medical College, and UGA. Georgia State is up and coming in research. The latest figures I could find were from 2008
Georgia Tech $427 million
UGA $128 million
MCG $75 million
GSU $41 million
Fort Valley $13 million
Albany $3.3 million
GaSou $2.5 million
KSU $1.4 million
A recent figure for Emory is $535 million.
It's fine for professors of schools to seek grants and contracts but the state of Georgia is better to focus its research support on just a few schools instead of spreading support thinly over more schools. Ga colleges and universities certainly can provide contractual research support for local companies and government.
As for the Brain Train, maybe the name should be dropped. If it is to connect universities, I don't see the point. If it is provide northeast access for commuters to and from the airport, maybe if there is large enough demand. MARTA is convenient and it runs in 15 and 20 minute intervals and goes straight to the airport. The Brain Train would have to sell itself as a convenient alternative to driving to a MARTA station or directly to an airport. If the MARTA Doraville line is ever extended well into Gwinnett, I don't think we would need the Brain Train.
I'd quibble a bit with you regarding what constitutes "real" research or not. Also keep in mind that plenty of research is conducted with minimal or no financial support from private or public grants--particularly that in the humanities. In addition to dollar amounts, you also have to look at research output by professors (publications, conferences, etc.)
In any case, I certainly agree that Emory, Georgia Tech, and UGA are the top tier in research institutions, with GSU coming up the ranks behind them, and KSU one level down from that. From what I've read and observed, both KSU and GSU are aiming to increase research output over the next decade.
You make a fair point about concentrating funds at a few schools that are focused on research. But it's also a smart idea to strategically boost support for research at up-and-coming schools as well.
Here's my idea. Overview: I am thinking of this line as a way to connect Cumberland with downtown, South Dekalb mall with downtown, and finally provide a station at Turner Field. Other stops would be Atlantic Station, Georgia Tech, AUC, and Zoo Atlanta. Those are the immediate destinations. From a 50 year perspective, this would also open up the west side of downtown for denser development.
Route: Start at Cumberland Mall following the railroad track ROW through Vinings, across the Chattahoochee River, all the way down to Chattahoochee Avenue. At the Water Works, move from the railroad ROW to an elevated structural steel railway down Northside Drive (think the L in Chicago) starting at the old railroad bridge on Northside Drive near Atlantic Station. Continue as a structural steel elevated railway down Northside Drive down to the Dome, connecting with the Blue and Green lines at Vine City.
Then begin turning East, connecting with the Red and Yellow lines at a new station near Castleberry Hill. Cross over I-20 and I-75 and pick back up as a structural steel elevated railway as you approach Turner Field and pick up Ralph David Abernathy. Follow RDA / Georgia Ave. as an elevated structural steel railway all the way to the Zoo / Grant Park where you enter a tunnel underneath Ormewood Park and East Atlanta. Emerge at I-20 east following the ROW to South Dekalb Mall.
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