Ten Point Plan for Atlantic Station (Atlanta, Buckhead: buy, taxes, living)

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

And I appreciate that, and do not refer to anything you have said in this thread. But my reaction was to earlier comments that suggested, among other things, that Buckhead residents condone white-collar crime. Because, after all, isn't that the only way to get rich in this world?
Class envy. Tired stereotype.

Huh????????? No, many folks work their tails off to get rich. (Were you being facetious and I just didn't get it?)

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Because, LovinDecatur, those folks live there. I think you answered your own question. Drive a short distance from the Village, and you'll see the multi-million homes on large lots. There are people that live there. It's not a stereotype. It's reality. Those are many of the folks that mold and nurture Atlanta's businesses, that donate very, very much to Atlanta causes (including parks, aquariums, real estate developments, etc.). Those are largely the folks that have economically built this city and still control its industry. For that reason, they are important, and thus must be a part of the conversation.

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Huh????????? No, many folks work their tails off to get rich. (Were you being facetious and I just didn't get it?)

Yes, my last statement was certainly facetious. If you're so inclined, read back a couple of pages to the 'double standard' comments about street violence vs white collar crime. Sorry if I was vague.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by aries4118

Well, look at some of what the other posters have suggested and what I have suggested above:

There is a way to ensure vibrancy, nightlife, and dynamism without having to shut everything down.

I'm all for it, if it can be done. Our track record has not been encouraging.

As far as when the bars close, I could not care less. I'm just tired of people behaving like backwoods idiots.

I have traveled abroad fairly extensively. You won't find the kind of moronic behaviour that has plagued Atlanta nightlife in great cities like Barcelona, Sydney, Cannes, Tokyo or Dubai.

aries, my friend -- and I do mean that sincerely -- I lived through the problems we've described. I spent several years asking for tolerance, more time, more policing, more negotiation and cooperation, etc. Many others felt the same and tried hard to reach solutions and accommodations. Things only got worse.

And that is why many people are wary of having the same scenario repeat itself. As you know, many, many clubs and bars still exist in Buckhead and Midtown; however, based on past experiences, residents are understandably cautious about the obnoxious conduct they've brought in the past.

Can you think of any evidence that things will be different this time around?

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

And I appreciate that, and do not refer to anything you have said in this thread. But my reaction was to earlier comments that suggested, among other things, that Buckhead residents condone white-collar crime. Because, after all, isn't that the only way to get rich in this world?
Class envy. Tired stereotype.

We see many stories of rich folks commiting various crimes on the news, often in a corporate context, especially recently with the incidents on Wall Street, etc., and it seems like they usually get away with it.

Q: What's a $100k fine to someone worth 100's of millions even if most of that wealth is on paper?
A: Not much.

Is it any wonder their general class is sometimes put in the public crosshairs?

I know the rep usually isn't deserved, just like young black folks sometimes get viewed in ways they don't deserve, but that's one of the costs of being part of a class that is commonly associated in the press with certain types of activities.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

Yes, my last statement was certainly facetious. If you're so inclined, read back a couple of pages to the 'double standard' comments about street violence vs white collar crime. Sorry if I was vague.

Hey, sorry if was being a dullard!!!!!! I think I'm just gonna quit posting today. Not my day...

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

2am or so. But, 8am??? I am sure that drunken driving accidents would soar. My Big Mama always said that nothing good happens after midnight!

I'm thinking more international-esque.

It can happen--and would be good for Atlanta.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by arjay57

...
Can you think of any evidence that things will be different this time around?




...

No, I cannot think of any concrete evidence at the moment/off the top of my head. But, I can think of things that have yet to be tried in Atlanta (investment in vibrancy+true nightlife with corresponding increased/extra police presence). I'm a pragmatic optimist--there's always new ways to try and make things better.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by aries4118

No, I cannot think of any concrete evidence at the moment/off the top of my head. But, I can think of things that have yet to be tried in Atlanta (investment in vibrancy+true nightlife with corresponding increased/extra police presence). I'm a pragmatic optimist--there's always new ways to try and make things better.

I'm an optimist, too. Still, you know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Here's what Atlanta needs to make its nightlife really buzz: An attitude among club-goers that says:

"Hey, we're a big city, let's act like sophisticated city dwellers and respect our town and our fellow citizens. We have a stake in our city and we're not going to tolerate any backwoods jackass who tries to drag it down. We're not going to cruise through neighborhoods where our fellow citizens live in the wee hours with our stereos booming. We're not going to trash the streets of our gorgeous city that everyone is working so hard to make better. We're not going to fight or scream profanity in the neighborhoods where our fellow citizens are at home or on the street. We're not going to pee in public. We are not going to buy or sell narcotics. We're not going to do drive-by shootings. Under no circumstances are we going to engage in moronic bush league behavior like shooting or stabbing."

Now, those are pretty simple things. Every world class city I've evern been expects its residents and visitors to do no less.

If folks in Atlanta did this, we probably wouldn't even need any additional policemen. As far as I'm concerned, the bars can stay open all night and patrons can talk, drink, dance and have a good time. Just don't drive drunk and don't behave like an ignorant, redneck jackass.

I'll absolutely guarantee that if Atlantans know their neighborhoods will be respected by club-goers and that they won't be endangered by pea-brained idiots, they will welcome nightlife just as they've always done. That's very simple and it's hard for me to imagine why anyone would not want to adhere to these principles.

The dynamic, vibrant cities you're talking about, aries, are incompatible with selfish idiots. Frankly, if anyone has to do the things I've mentioned in order to have a good time, I sincerely hope they will get the bejeebus out of Atlanta. Go find a cornfield somewhere and knock yourself out. Just don't bring that hee-haw act here.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I'm an optimist, too. Still, you know what they say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Here's what Atlanta needs to make its nightlife really buzz: An attitude among club-goers that says:

"Hey, we're a big city, let's act like sophisticated city dwellers and respect our town and our fellow citizens. We have a stake in our city and we're not going to tolerate any backwoods jackass who tries to drag it down. We're not going to cruise through neighborhoods where our fellow citizens live in the wee hours with our stereos booming. We're not going to trash the streets of our gorgeous city that everyone is working so hard to make better. We're not going to fight or scream profanity in the neighborhoods where our fellow citizens are at home or on the street. We're not going to pee in public. We are not going to buy or sell narcotics. We're not going to do drive-by shootings. Under no circumstances are we going to engage in moronic bush league behavior like shooting or stabbing."

Now, those are pretty simple things. Every world class city I've evern been expects its residents and visitors to do no less.

If folks in Atlanta did this, we probably wouldn't even need any additional policemen. As far as I'm concerned, the bars can stay open all night and patrons can talk, drink, dance and have a good time. Just don't drive drunk and don't behave like an ignorant, redneck jackass.

I'll absolutely guarantee that if Atlantans know their neighborhoods will be respected by club-goers and that they won't be endangered by pea-brained idiots, they will welcome nightlife just as they've always done. That's very simple and it's hard for me to imagine why anyone would not want to adhere to these principles.

The dynamic, vibrant cities you're talking about, aries, are incompatible with selfish idiots. Frankly, if anyone has to do the things I've mentioned in order to have a good time, I sincerely hope they will get the bejeebus out of Atlanta. Go find a cornfield somewhere and knock yourself out. Just don't bring that hee-haw act here.

OK...

I don't see the optimist.

I'll tell you why:

You keep going on about redneck culture/elements, selfish idiots, etc.

But--what should Atlanta do about becoming more vibrant? What do you suggest? Close all nightclubs/bars...???


I already outlined (very simply) what could happen with increased police presence in an earlier post to AnsleyPark.


It does happen--lived in/visited cities in South America that have achieved this--cities with much worse crime problems than Atlanta.

[BringBackCobain]

Originally Posted by aries4118

OK...

I don't see the optimist.

I'll tell you why:

You keep going on about redneck culture/elements, selfish idiots, etc.

But--what should Atlanta do about becoming more vibrant? What do you suggest? Close all nightclubs/bars...???


I already outlined (very simply) what could happen with increased police presence in an earlier post to AnsleyPark.


It does happen--lived in/visited cities in South America that have achieved this--cities with much worse crime problems than Atlanta.

The problem with "vibrancy" (?) is that it attracts the cruising riff-raff that blasts music, packs heat, and likes to be seen, but can't afford the cover charge.

The only thing that I could see keeping cruising away (and thus working) would be a pedestrian-only bar district (and maybe one techno/Euro-style dance club), like Beale Street or Bourbon Street. Except, Atlanta's would have to be more like Beale Street--gate to get in with a security checkpoint. The cover charge would need to be around $20, but it would buy you unlimited access for all bars in the district. It would be open all night. Oh yeah, best part: it's open container, so no need to chug before you hop to the next bar.